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Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

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141–150 of 220 posts

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#141
post #67

The world would be a better place if everyone ate magic mushrooms in the wilderness on a camping trip as part of outdoor ed. in school. If you've never experienced it, you probably won't understand.

I wish people would stop the unhealthy and irresponsible and dangerous life-destroying hype and promotion of psychedelics including cannabis. All medical experts warn against the use of drugs and psychedelics except as medical tools of medical experts. Drugs and psychedelics can trigger all kinds of long term mental disorders that even the best experts might not be able to heal. Medical science and psychology are sti…

P.S.

Positive thinking or a therapy or the right medicine can improve much and might heal or remove a psychological or bio-chemical disorder.

Still, psychedelics should not be used privately for fun or to solve problems.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#142
post #116
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this very interesting because I had precisely the opposite reaction once when I tried psylocibin. Despite being pretty solidly materialist and agnostic, I'd always held a bit of a soft spot for Cartesian duelism and a bit of a "but it'd be cool if..." What I didn't expect was that the effects wouldn't just "feel real" or "be convincing", they were real. Subjectively, it wasn't inside my head, it was the actual…

LSD made me go from your run of the mill nihilist to being convinced that even consciousness is a complete illusion and all philosophy is built on this ridiculous lie. It's like solipsism taken one step further, no I'm not the only thing that exists because -I- don't really exist in any meaningful way either. We're all just P-zombies. Qualia is nonsense If you thought relating to normal people as a nihilist was hard.…

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Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#143
post #50
post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

I find this very interesting because I had precisely the opposite reaction once when I tried psylocibin. Despite being pretty solidly materialist and agnostic, I'd always held a bit of a soft spot for Cartesian duelism and a bit of a "but it'd be cool if..." What I didn't expect was that the effects wouldn't just "feel real" or "be convincing", they were real. Subjectively, it wasn't inside my head, it was the actual…

It went the other way for me. My experience was that anything I believed could become true, including the idea that its all generated by the mind. It sounds like you still leave a part of your reality outside the scope of that. I'd suggest looking into the idea of reality tunnels as expressed by Robert Anton Wilson.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#144
post #50
post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

I find this very interesting because I had precisely the opposite reaction once when I tried psylocibin. Despite being pretty solidly materialist and agnostic, I'd always held a bit of a soft spot for Cartesian duelism and a bit of a "but it'd be cool if..." What I didn't expect was that the effects wouldn't just "feel real" or "be convincing", they were real. Subjectively, it wasn't inside my head, it was the actual…

Yep, the arbitrariness and oddity of the experiences cemented materialism for me.

Something an acquaintance in the old Atari users group I was a part of in the 80s/90s said to me (when I was a teenager, saying "acid could be neat to try") stuck with me.

"You know how if you drop some screws or something on video circuitry of the PCB of your computer and the display gets all scrambled? That's analogous to what LSD is doing to your brain."

The patterns displayed across the TV after doing that might be really cool. But it's a profound mistake to assume meaning in them. In fact it'd be very difficult to work backwards from what's on the screen to how the video circuitry works.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#145
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Well, it sounds like you went from being an atheist to an agnostic. That certainly is a more rational and less dogmatic position to take, based on what we know. What we know is that there is absolutely no proof that God exists. With that being the case, I don't see why being an atheist is not the most rational position to take. Can I win a $100 million lottery someday? Sure. Should I be living my life believing that…

Atheism says "god does not exist and I'm sure about this". This is exactly like saying "it's impossible for me to win the lottery" - that is the stupid position to take, because you know in this case it is untrue. Anything theological is impossible to prove one way or the other (or at least I've never heard of anything remotely approaching proof) and therefore a position of certainty one way or the other must be luna…

Depends on your definition. Hand out sheets of paper and ask people to write down all the gods they believe exist. What's your term for people who hand in empty sheets? For many of us, that's non-theist, aka atheist.

Also note that it's not only theological propositions that are impossible to prove: The omphalos hypothesis could be true and the whole universe could have started existing a microsecond ago. I could be a brain dreaming in a vat, or a simulation, and no one can prove that isn't the case. Should I be 'agnostic' about that, too?

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#146
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your livescience.com link basically argues the opposite, but you cherrypicked one person's cautionary, own-ass-covering advice to make a contrary argument. The article itself points out that people overwhelmingly come out of he experience with positive personality changes! Also, nobody is arguing that irresponsible use of psilocybin here. The person you quoted is saying that unsupervised psilocybin use is potentially…

Your livescience.com link basically argues the opposite I argue against the private use of drugs and psychedelics. Especially against the private use of psychedelics to solve existing problems. I argue for the use of drugs only as medicine by medical experts. That people believe they had great insights does not mean that it is actually true. Religious people think their god is real and important. Some people argue th…

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Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#147
post #67

The world would be a better place if everyone ate magic mushrooms in the wilderness on a camping trip as part of outdoor ed. in school. If you've never experienced it, you probably won't understand.

I wish people would stop the unhealthy and irresponsible and dangerous life-destroying hype and promotion of psychedelics including cannabis. All medical experts warn against the use of drugs and psychedelics except as medical tools of medical experts. Drugs and psychedelics can trigger all kinds of long term mental disorders that even the best experts might not be able to heal. Medical science and psychology are sti…

You are terrible uninformed, like an abstinent catholic priest trying to preach about the joys and difficulties of family.

Throwing all drugs in one pile (marijuana and mushrooms?) because they are categorized that way by the law is like saying medicine to conottate anything from an aspirin to chemo.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you see it as a indication of the opposite of what we typically call God? That instead of there being an external entity outside our universe interacting with you, you talked to something God-like inside yourself. This might be what you share with every person in history that ever have received divine inspiration. That same experience motivated them. Just like we can share experience with other people when we a…

This person was unwilling or unable to assimilate their experience and now they are blaming LSD. Funny enough, if he kept taking LSD and exploring his spirituality he could deal with the feelings of believing in science but being shaken by the possibility of the supernatural. That's actually pretty straightforward. But he is choosing to close the book on it, and now is blaming the drug when really its himself. An act…

It’s bewildering how many drug defendants are here on HN. For you the solution is not to avoid assuming dangerous drugs that can mess badly your mind, as happened to the gp, but on the contrary is continuing to assume it once your mind is messed up. Maybe if one day the same things happen to you you may change your point of view, although it would be too late at that point I fear.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#149
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced ego death and it brought me out of my very depressed state. I felt so centered and driven afterwards and that feeling lasted for months. It might've been a gamble but I'm absolutely glad that I took it.

I've only experienced that ego-death through meditation (twice while I was in high school.) Just wanted to mention that it can be achieved without psychedelics. The easier to describe experience consisted of 'me' as a tiny speck of dust floating in a featureless, dimensionless void. As I tried to grasp a frame of reference I snapped back to my normal reality. I did not meditate much after that, mostly because I felt…

oho, this resembles my few experiences with mushrooms (mixed them with lemon juice for shorter but much stronger experience) - I laid down on the bed, relaxing music in the background, and gradually lost all the senses. I mean all of them - even sensing your own body.

I didn't have hands, eyes, or anything physical - I became (i think white) mist of atoms, whirling in an endless dance (think mist in the hamam and when you blow air through it).

It didn't happen suddenly, but very gradually. When it began to (very slowly) fade, I slowly recombined from those atoms back into my personality, started to rediscover physical parts of existence - breath, eyes, hands etc. I could still perfectly recall what was happening with me 1 hour ago (unlike say alcohol which just dumbs you down to potato), but mind was less and less able to comprehend the whole picture with all the subleties - it literally shrank back. After main trip was gone, I still had 1-2 hours of literally walking down the hill with intense emotions of absolutely pure happiness and inner peace. Very spiritual, especially for an atheist/agnostic person like me.

Massive mental exhaustion afterwards with very strong headache, but that was the price I was willing to pay.

By far the strongest experiences in my whole life (and i've been through some stuff), absolutely positive without a single negative atom. The beauty of psychedelics is they work with who we are inside, and thus it's a very unique experience for each of us, not much transferable/understandable beyond vague descriptions.

But that breakdown and reassembly - I literally had the feeling that if I had some mental issues, they would definitely manifest right there. If you come from bad background, have some issues, do evil stuff without reason etc don't do them, the risks are then too big and those forces are titanic

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#150
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people would stop the unhealthy and irresponsible and dangerous life-destroying hype and promotion of psychedelics including cannabis. All medical experts warn against the use of drugs and psychedelics except as medical tools of medical experts. Drugs and psychedelics can trigger all kinds of long term mental disorders that even the best experts might not be able to heal. Medical science and psychology are sti…

You are terrible uninformed, like an abstinent catholic priest trying to preach about the joys and difficulties of family. Throwing all drugs in one pile (marijuana and mushrooms?) because they are categorized that way by the law is like saying medicine to conottate anything from an aspirin to chemo.

IMO:

- The government should sell all desired drugs for little or no money.

- Drugs have no good use except as medicine by medical experts.

Maybe you should apply as test subject for studies of the effects of drugs on humans.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mari...

Maybe 10 or 20 years of experience with legalized cannabis and other psychedelics will lead to punishment of online promotion or belittlement of these drugs.

https://herb.co/marijuana/news/cannabis-induced-panic-attack...

How many cases are unknown because the victim did not consult the medical service ?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/307249.php

How many cases of brain damage (e.g. stupidity, bad control of emotions) are not even recognized by the victims ?

Besides, not only the drug but also the dose and intention matters.

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