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I Got Catfished by a Candidate

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Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#561

Post by learc83 »

extra88 wrote: post #443
learc83 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That escalated quickly. Clearly that was hyperbole. >Checking references is one of the last things we do and insist that one be their a current manager so being "outed" by someone else isn't an issue. What kind of positions are you hiring for where people are OK with this? The vast majority of managers aren't OK with employees who are actively looking for other work, despite what they may say.

Managers don't have to be OK with it, they just can't retaliate. I'm a manager and I'm totally okay with it, they're employees, not slaves. I've seen no indication from my fellow managers that anyone had a big problem with people looking. I work in higher ed. There are plenty of people with other workplace problems, mental health problems, but maybe university staff are generally more humane (our benefits are compare…

>but maybe university staff are generally more humane

Yeah I would say that's probably true.

In private industry this wouldn't work at all. Because most managers will retaliate. Mostly they'll just do things like giving you short term grunt work because they don't want you on anything long term. The worst managers will just flat out fire you.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#562

Post by mindcrime »

astura wrote: post #490
mindcrime wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think management at this company respects their employees? Or maybe they refer to them as "resources", treat them as disposable, fungible, commodities, and deserve no more respect in turn? Not saying that is the case, but the question deserves asking. Respect is a two way street.

I mean, I never worked anywhere where I felt management didn't respect me.

Interesting. In my experience the vast majority of companies consider their employees disposable commodities.

See: micromanagement, use of the term "resource" to refer to people, layoffs as soon as there is a bad quarter and the stock price takes a little dip, shoddy "open plan" working conditions, and all the other things companies tend to do. If you have found a better situation, hang onto it with both hands and don't let go!

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#563

Post by VLM »

lvillani wrote: post #392
f4stjack wrote: post #390

The thing I don't get is, and probably I'll be downvoted to hell because of that, even though this guy lied about his past, his knowledge is solid. Nobody can guess what the interviewers will ask you and from what I've read from the text he aced those. If this is the tech business rolls what I see that it wants developers with a history, with connections, with "clout" so to speak; doesn't matter if you can help their…

His knowledge is solid, sure, but would you really want to work with someone who has such a strong inclination to cheat and deceive? I certainly wouldn't.

I thought for sure the story was going to be an Aesops Fable moral story along the lines of discrimination against trans people is illegal and wrong and the "rest of the story" is Susan's first name was Jack until six months ago, therefore no one has any idea who Susan is.

Also this is a sales position; not being overly detailed about the product's occasional quirk is not an on the job problem... if the applicant can talk a good talk and behave in a professional manner there doesn't seem to be an issue. Classic philosophical religious debate for centuries, is it more important to have right behavior or right thoughts?

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#564

Post by organsnyder »

Clubber wrote: post #85
maxxxxx wrote: post #78

I don't think we should use such stories as a reason to make the hiring process even more paranoid. In general people are pretty honest so I wouldn't like to see them having to jump through even more hoops because of a few fraudsters. Advice number 1 is probably best : "Trust your gut". If something doesn't make sense it's worth clearing that up.

Yes, this and reference checks. Plus, if a guy isn't working out, fire him. Not a huge deal. The current tech hiring process, at least what I read on here, is absurd.

Depends on what "isn't working out" means. If the employee is just bad at their job in mundane ways like low performance, poor quality, etc. then that's probably not too harmful (or it shouldn't be, if your company is more than a dozen people or so).

However, if "isn't working out" means that the employee has behavioral issues that harm colleagues, is inappropriate with clients, steals intellectual property, or something like that, the damage could be much worse—even catastrophic. Of course, companies should be built to be resilient to these situations, but it's rarely "not a huge deal".

All that being said, I agree with your premise that much of tech hiring is "absurd". Too many companies (especially consultancies) are built with a very low tolerance for underperformance, to the point that they don't contribute to the development of the overall workforce.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#565

Post by lovich »

nocman wrote: post #526
dkersten wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some might see it as question dodging, which often implies the negative.

There's a difference between avoiding answering a question to prevent hurting someone's feelings, and doing so just to put yourself in a positive light (for selfish reasons). The scenario I was envisioning was the former. Yeah I understand that some people try to spin everything their way, and I know it's annoying. My point was that just because someone doesn't answer a question or doesn't tell you everything they th…

In this scenario you were asked one question, but answered another when saying "thank you for making it", because you didn't want to deal with the social fallout of actually telling the truth to the original question.

I don't see how that's not mental gymnastics to say it's not lieing, which seems like a big divide in this thread

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#566

Post by _bxg1 »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #293
_bxg1 wrote: post #153

Why would you do this? Either you can do the job or you can't... I guess if the entire job is remote you could outsource the work to someone else?

Can do the job != Can convince company to hire you

Right but if it turns out you're a fraud it'll become apparent almost immediately and they'll just... fire you. What would you gain from that?

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#567

Post by jpz »

I presume an "AE role" is an account executive role - which must be a sales and relationship role?

It would seem to me that he aced his interview - he certainly sold the story!

I don't mean to imply sales is unethical btw, I know ethical sales people - but the fact they couldn't filter the prospective candidate on actual skills or knowledge, and only filtered the candidate for fabrication, seems to indicate they are hiring for people of a certain background.

The fact he gamed that is quite impressive, but it also speaks a lot about whatever the hiring criteria is.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#568

Post by bovermyer »

mrbill wrote: post #248
cookiecaper wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a Freemason, so I'm probably talking out of turn here, but I've always admired Freemasonry and the Masons I know are pretty cool, so I'll give this a shot. Corrections welcome. Freemasonry is a collection of locally-run fraternities. There is no overarching masonic organization or top-down command structure, it's all done by the local lodge, which may or may not be affiliated with other lodges. They are all "…

Actually, in the US it's run at the state level. Each state has a "Grand Lodge", that issues charters for the local Lodges (and in some cases, owns the buildings). Each state "recognizes" other state Grand Lodges (and their local Lodges) as "regular"; this lets me go visit other Lodges that my state GL has recognition with, and so forth. You might see lodges designated "AF&AM" or "F&AM" - that dates back to a minor s…

So I have an odd situation for you.

I belonged to Blue Lodge #24 in South Dakota. I was elevated unusually rapidly to Master Mason to coincide with a visit from the Grand Master. I feel like it was way too fast; so much so that I didn't properly learn everything, in my opinion. I moved away from the area, lost touch with the lodge, and fell out of Freemasonry entirely.

That was about ten years ago.

Now I'm curious about connecting with a lodge locally here in Minneapolis, but I have no idea what my status would be. By tradition I'm still a Master Mason, but by learning I'm a novice. I don't even remember the proper greetings.

What should I do?

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#569

Post by megamindbrian2 »

mrbill wrote: post #338
megamindbrian2 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know only a few. One installs floors when they need an extra hand. One drives a Maserati. I am thinking about applying. You have to write three letters, the first two are ignored.

I've never heard that! But then I've only experienced Texas Masonry. Here, we tell you to come on down and hang out on our unofficial "study nights", where we sit around, have pizza, and guys go off in small groups to study the ritual memorization work. The "new guys" or people who are interested hang out in our cafeteria, get a tour of the building, etc, and just ask questions, get to know the guys, and so forth. We…

Thanks for the correction. The female version is called Order of the Eastern star in case anyone is wondering where to join. I just met one recently actually. Really sweet lady.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#570

Post by organsnyder »

hinkley wrote: post #552
danpalmer wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you “interviewing” the company well enough when you are looking for a job? They shouldn’t be lying, but you can often pick up on these things through red flags in answers they give to your questions.

Maybe it’s a local thing, but I find I rarely have time to interview the company anymore. For the most part they’ve a set agenda that takes up all the time. I miss the days when nobody knew how to interview. I had plenty of time to ask questions.

Any good interview process will allow—even encourage—candidates to ask questions. I've found that most interviewers are very open to me turning things around and asking them something; and judging by the way interviewers tend to love talking about their companies, I think it's been to my advantage to do so.

Yes, good interviewers often have a script; but a good script will provide time for questions and other free dialogue.

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