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I Got Catfished by a Candidate

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Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#481

Post by dx034 »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #120
deedubaya wrote: post #7

Maybe the author should evaluate _why_ they got catfished. Recruiting processes are so convoluted and hard to break through, that someone who apparently otherwise would have been a great candidate, had to lie to get an interview. Was a good candidate really only one that had worked at the managers previous employer? How many great candidates are companies missing out on because of arbitrary filters?

>someone who apparently otherwise would have been a great candidate Dishonesty is an intolerable trait. This person clearly wasn't a great candidate. Lying at work is just about the only thing I'll always fire somebody for.

Maybe he had the choice between the truth which would've never gotten him even to a phone interview, or lying where he apparently aced all interviews. Sounds like someone who is great but doesn't have the CV people are looking for. For those it's really hard to get in but companies can be glad when they hire them (since they're cheaper for that reason).

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#482

Post by doktrin »

extra88 wrote: post #315
learc83 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking people who weren't listed as references can cause all kinds of trouble. In this case the candidate said they left on good terms, but given the author's willingness to go beyond what is "considered kosher" says to me that they likely do this all the time. Even if you're not asking people at a candidate's current employer, if you start poking around asking all of your contacts about someone and it gets back to t…

> asking all of your contacts about someone That escalated quickly. Checking references is one of the last things we do and insist that one be their a current manager so being "outed" by someone else isn't an issue. If I talk to a non-reference who I think is in a position to know about a candidate's performance, I would make it clear that discretion is called for; that's no guarantee but again, reference checks are…

> If I talk to a non-reference who I think is in a position to know about a candidate's performance, I would make it clear that discretion is called for

how benevolent of you

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#483

Post by nkrisc »

tomcooks wrote: post #397
lvillani wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His knowledge is solid, sure, but would you really want to work with someone who has such a strong inclination to cheat and deceive? I certainly wouldn't.

He adapted to an unfavourable situation, studied hard, did his research well and passed multiple tests - I'd gladly work with someone like that

And when the solution to the next unfavorable situation he faces involves railroading you? Liars lie and cheaters cheat. You might be fine if you're never their target, but you never know when you will be.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#484

Post by dx034 »

thyrsus wrote: post #403
f4stjack wrote: post #390

The thing I don't get is, and probably I'll be downvoted to hell because of that, even though this guy lied about his past, his knowledge is solid. Nobody can guess what the interviewers will ask you and from what I've read from the text he aced those. If this is the tech business rolls what I see that it wants developers with a history, with connections, with "clout" so to speak; doesn't matter if you can help their…

I got the impression from the article that this was for a sales position - "AE role" - account executive. A good tech sales rep must have a solid understanding of the product and its place in the tech environment, but they also need to be trustworthy, to the benefit of both their employer and customer.

But if that's judged by the companies you've worked for, how do you get in if you didn't study at the right university or come from the right background?

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#485

Post by jancsika »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #277
jancsika wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dishonesty is an intolerable trait. Dishonesty which you can detect is apparently intolerable. But dishonesty which you never catch may not be. That's one of the points of the article, the other being that the candidate apparently showed a solid set of skills in the interviews. Dishonest people are dishonest, but they also might be lazy and thus willing to apply a skillset rather than deal with the complexity of ad…

That's a bit of a tautology. You first have to be aware of the existence of something in order to then tolerate it. The thing about dishonesty (aside from the fact that a person willing to be dishonest about one thing, is more than likely willing to be dishonest about other things too), is that it tends to beget more dishonesty. You tend to have to tell more lies in the future to maintain ones you told in the past. A…

> You first have to be aware of the existence of something in order to then tolerate it.

Sure, but that's irrelevant to my point. We typically have $known_small_quantity of cases where we have detected people being dishonest. But we also have $unknown_quantity of people who were dishonest to us without us realizing it-- maybe because we were naive, or because the deceit was so sophisticated, or it was so carefully contained, etc.

> The thing about dishonesty (aside from the fact that a person willing to be dishonest about one thing, is more than likely willing to be dishonest about other things too), is that it tends to beget more dishonesty.

You necessarily based that opinion on the cases of $known_small_quantity dishonesty. Which, unless you are a professional PI, is almost guaranteed to be crude and fairly easily detectable.

Again, the point of the article is that this cheat left little to no traces of dishonesty aside from choosing the same reference. Yes, the author describes the candidate as "too good to be true." But that's after the fact, and after the author admitted that they would have hired the person without the coincidence of knowing the reference chosen.

If you assume from the beginning that "dishonesty begets dishonesty," it leads you astray. For example, how many of the author's current employees are just luckier cheats than this candidate? That's a question you don't ask if you assume dishonesty is necessarily self-destructive.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#486

Post by FLUX-YOU »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #120
deedubaya wrote: post #7

Maybe the author should evaluate _why_ they got catfished. Recruiting processes are so convoluted and hard to break through, that someone who apparently otherwise would have been a great candidate, had to lie to get an interview. Was a good candidate really only one that had worked at the managers previous employer? How many great candidates are companies missing out on because of arbitrary filters?

>someone who apparently otherwise would have been a great candidate Dishonesty is an intolerable trait. This person clearly wasn't a great candidate. Lying at work is just about the only thing I'll always fire somebody for.

It's getting caught that's the intolerable trait, let's be honest. Depends on the financial gain tied to the lie.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#487

Post by hkmurakami »

derefr wrote: post #448
pjc50 wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next time someone says technical hiring is not hiring quite so many women or minorities because it's purely meritocratic, I'm going to point them at this post.

Do women not attend social clubs? Because that’s what IRC channels and the Freemasons both are: social clubs. Or, do women with hiring authority just not preferentially hire contacts from social clubs? (A good test case: are there as many “same sorority” coworkers as “same fraternity” coworkers, in proportion to the number of each gender with hiring authority in that company?) Or, do women just end up in fewer positi…

The last point is certainly a "yes" overall.

Junior Leagues are great example of women's social groups that are quite influential. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_League

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#488

Post by dx034 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #111
navs wrote: post #86

sigh > Rule #2: Take a long hard look at a candidate’s social profiles. Is not having a LinkedIn account going to come back to bite me, even when applying for dev roles? I've had even senior devs at popular local dev shops say LinkedIn is a "necessary evil" because it: 1. is easy to grep 2. you can find whether a candidate has similar connections to you 3. recommendations I get New Zealand is small and the social gra…

In California at least, looking at an applicant's social profile can reveal information the company is not allowed to ask for or use in the hiring decision. LinkedIn wouldn't qualify since it's a public resume, but checking out an applicant's Facebook page or Instragram would likely give rise to actionable legal claims if the applicant is rejected. This doesn't mean you'd lose, but you'd pay out a chunk of money to d…

Also, what should Facebook tell you? Worst case you don't hire someone because you don't agree with their political views or hobbies even if they'd never brought that up during employment. A public web search can make sense in cases where clients would also potentially google your employees (e.g. sales reps or managers). But for a developer that shouldn't play a role.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#490

Post by astura »

mindcrime wrote: post #140
AlexCoventry wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a sign of massive disrespect. Do you want a close relationship with someone who doesn't respect you?

Do you think management at this company respects their employees? Or maybe they refer to them as "resources", treat them as disposable, fungible, commodities, and deserve no more respect in turn? Not saying that is the case, but the question deserves asking. Respect is a two way street.

I mean, I never worked anywhere where I felt management didn't respect me.
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