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I Got Catfished by a Candidate

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Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#441

Post by drewmol »

rando444 wrote: post #420
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very least, I think pjc50's observation highlights that there is a certain inertia in some industries that perpetuates a bias toward one or the other gender. Edit: changed a couple of words to make my point clearer.

Well if we're doing anecdotes, I work for the second largest IT firm in my country, and the management is largely made up of women, and I don't believe any of them to be freemasons. Perhaps this observation has more to do with location and culture than it does industry.

Do you know any of them to be Catholic?

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#442

Post by skate22 »

mrbill wrote: post #338
megamindbrian2 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know only a few. One installs floors when they need an extra hand. One drives a Maserati. I am thinking about applying. You have to write three letters, the first two are ignored.

I've never heard that! But then I've only experienced Texas Masonry. Here, we tell you to come on down and hang out on our unofficial "study nights", where we sit around, have pizza, and guys go off in small groups to study the ritual memorization work. The "new guys" or people who are interested hang out in our cafeteria, get a tour of the building, etc, and just ask questions, get to know the guys, and so forth. We…

How are the membership numbers changing over time?

I only ask because of the religous aspect of the organization. I know a lot of the youth are not very religous (compared to previous generations).

I really like the community aspect, but the ties to christianity would definitely be a blocker for a lot of people i know age 20-30

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#443

Post by extra88 »

learc83 wrote: post #319
extra88 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> asking all of your contacts about someone That escalated quickly. Checking references is one of the last things we do and insist that one be their a current manager so being "outed" by someone else isn't an issue. If I talk to a non-reference who I think is in a position to know about a candidate's performance, I would make it clear that discretion is called for; that's no guarantee but again, reference checks are…

>That escalated quickly. Clearly that was hyperbole. >Checking references is one of the last things we do and insist that one be their a current manager so being "outed" by someone else isn't an issue. What kind of positions are you hiring for where people are OK with this? The vast majority of managers aren't OK with employees who are actively looking for other work, despite what they may say.

Managers don't have to be OK with it, they just can't retaliate. I'm a manager and I'm totally okay with it, they're employees, not slaves. I've seen no indication from my fellow managers that anyone had a big problem with people looking.

I work in higher ed. There are plenty of people with other workplace problems, mental health problems, but maybe university staff are generally more humane (our benefits are compared to the American average).

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#444

Post by Yizahi »

drdeadringer wrote: post #299
fenwick67 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For literal people like myself the line between a lie such as "my biggest flaw is I work too hard" or "I have never used illegal drugs" and a lie like "I worked at Acme Corp" can seem thin.

Please explain to me how "this person worked here" compares to "I never inhaled". These two statements do not equalize for me.

Totally similar things. Drugs are irrelevant for doing the job and same is work experience. What matters is skills but they can't be measured most of the time so proxy value "experience" has been invented. But everyone knows that it is only a proxy thing and that very likely you won't be hired if you can do the job but can't "prove" it. So social moral value of lying about work experience has fallen to insignificant levels, for majority of jobs. The only thing stopping people from lying about experience part is fear of getting caught or no need to do it in the first place.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#445

Post by blauditore »

Wouldn't the fake reference part be easy to debunk? If applicable, call the company's generic (front desk) phone number and ask to be forwarded to XY. If the company is too large for that, use email and make sure the domain of the address you got matches the official company website.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#446

Post by zero_intp »

lovich wrote: post #205
frisco wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true, limitations on subcontracting (or at least limiting it to approved subcontractors) are allowed and common. Just because he’s a contractor doesn’t mean NDAs are meaningless.

Limiting work to people with security clearances is an example of ok limitations. Adding so many limits that the acceptable people to do work are the single contractor means youve jaut made a constructive way to get around hiring a person as an employee

your statements are unsupported. It is my observation that you are stating spirit of law to your understanding, but not what occurs in law or practice.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#447

Post by extra88 »

inertiatic wrote: post #361
extra88 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> asking all of your contacts about someone That escalated quickly. Checking references is one of the last things we do and insist that one be their a current manager so being "outed" by someone else isn't an issue. If I talk to a non-reference who I think is in a position to know about a candidate's performance, I would make it clear that discretion is called for; that's no guarantee but again, reference checks are…

>insist that one be their a current manager That's inviting imposters. Most regular people applying for a job wouldn't provide their current boss as a reference, but the people who would provide fake references? No problem! You can talk to my current boss, or even my boss in 5 years time, whatever you want!

Having a friend pretend to be your boss for a reference would be risky. I could look up the contact information you provide to see if it matches the manager's name, I could call a general number at the business to be connected to them. Is the friend supposed to answer the phone pretending to be someone else for an unknown period of time? There are many ways in which they could screw up their performance. This is real life, not TV.

If a candidate attempted that, I would definitely look into what options there are for consequences beyond not getting the job.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#448

Post by derefr »

pjc50 wrote: post #398
mrbill wrote: post #87

You just never know who might turn up from your past... 1999: I was a sysadmin at an ISP in Austin. One day we had a tour come through, people looking to see if they wanted to colo in our datacenter. In walks in the former CEO and most of the technical staff from the Oklahoma City-based ISP I'd started my career at and left in '96. We laughed, shook hands.. and they headhunted me away a couple months later with a 200…

Next time someone says technical hiring is not hiring quite so many women or minorities because it's purely meritocratic, I'm going to point them at this post.

Do women not attend social clubs? Because that’s what IRC channels and the Freemasons both are: social clubs.

Or, do women with hiring authority just not preferentially hire contacts from social clubs? (A good test case: are there as many “same sorority” coworkers as “same fraternity” coworkers, in proportion to the number of each gender with hiring authority in that company?)

Or, do women just end up in fewer positions with hiring authority?

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#449

Post by projektfu »

sls wrote: post #322
learc83 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's not lying; that's just normal social etiquette. That's the argument. Some amount of dishonesty is required to follow normal social etiquette. Saying I'm fine is expected even if you're not actually fine. We have cultural norms for what kind of dishonesty is acceptable. When you exceed those norms, you're lying. Politely laughing at an unfunny joke, and telling someone that their food is "interesting", fall we…

Expressions like the American greeting "How are you?" are examples of phatic expressions ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phatic_expression ), meaning that they are functional as opposed to communicative. Although they take the form of communicative statements, in this case an interrogative, they are really not. Understanding this distinction was very helpful for me, letting me answer "fine" with no ethical concern wh…

If it really bothers you to "lie" and say, "fine", just reflect the question back. "Hi, how are you?". You'll see how it wasn't intended as a real question.

The Sopranos version is, Q: "How you doin'?" ... A: "How YOU doin'?"

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#450

Post by pbhjpbhj »

mrbill wrote: post #259
mrbill wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, in the US it's run at the state level. Each state has a "Grand Lodge", that issues charters for the local Lodges (and in some cases, owns the buildings). Each state "recognizes" other state Grand Lodges (and their local Lodges) as "regular"; this lets me go visit other Lodges that my state GL has recognition with, and so forth. You might see lodges designated "AF&AM" or "F&AM" - that dates back to a minor s…

FYI - a Stated Meeting at a Masonic Lodge is basically Robert's Rules of Order, with a little more pomp and circumstance and fancy titles and "jeweled collars" (felt and chromed pot metal) for the officer positions. Being a Mason and speaking in front of an entire Lodge helped me get over my fear of public speaking - because everyone else in the room had been through the exact same scenario, and nobody was going to m…

>are based around the allegory of the craftsmen that built King Solomon's Temple, //

Interesting, so it's not an ancient society but a modern one fully cognisant of its fiction? I thought Masonry was founded on a real belief that it was a successor through time of a group of actual people building an actual temple.

Is it in the records of your society who created the fiction and why they based it on Jewish history?

It's funny, it's kinda the reverse of Welsh culture where the current form of Eisteddfod and druidic tradition is verifiably an invention of 20th C but everyone behaves as if it's pre-Roman Celtic history.

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