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NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

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Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#111

Post by semi-extrinsic »

function_seven wrote: post #26
kingkongjaffa wrote: post #3

You really need accurate material models for this to be any use. Without being able to validate the baseline condition using the same non-linear, anisotropic, material behaviour profiles, there's no way to develop new geometry and/or use novel materials, and actually prove it's better than before. They would ideally release their own, repeatable analysis files of their own benchmark condition. I suspect the best helm…

> That being said Tesla has improved crash safety over what decades of safety engineers could do so maybe there is always space for improvement. Was the lack of big-ass engine in the front an advantage for them? Seems like the empty frunk (and low center of mass?) allows for some engineering that can't be done in a conventional ICE car.

I'm curious about this statement as well. Do we have any data that shows a Tesla is any better than a roughly comparable (size, weight, cost) brand new ICE car? Say a Lexus GS or a BMW 7 series?

They do love to point out they are safer than the NTSB average, but it would be kind of apalling if their cars were not safer than a 10 year old Toyota Corolla (approximately the average car).

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#112

Post by treis »

Twirrim wrote: post #89
vermontdevil wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rugby does not have a helmet (except for the padded ones) and yet they still have concussion issues. I think there’s no clear answer although I agree about removing face mask. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC155428/

As I understand it, Rugby has a lower incident rate of concussion, and it's more the outcome of accidents than as a direct aspect of the tackling. That said, it's a very different style of play in Rugby to American Football. Rugby players just don't deliberately go in with their head for the tackle, which is something you often see with NFL players (some NFL teams have experimented with helmet free tackling practice…

Downs in American Football make a huge difference too. Teams have 3/4 tries to go a total of 10 yards. A yard on a running play is very important so running full blast into someone to gain/prevent an extra yard is worth it. In Rugby, it doesn't really matter if you go 3 or 4 yards before being tackled.

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#113

Post by joshuas »

kolbe wrote: post #102
bgroins wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only we used all of that money spent on football programs to pay for higher education for poor kids. Wishful thinking I know.

Football enriches most universities, giving them extra funds to do things like provide scholarships.

This is not true, most universities lose money on their sports programs.

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#114

Post by timerol »

jdietrich wrote: post #44
kingkongjaffa wrote: post #3

You really need accurate material models for this to be any use. Without being able to validate the baseline condition using the same non-linear, anisotropic, material behaviour profiles, there's no way to develop new geometry and/or use novel materials, and actually prove it's better than before. They would ideally release their own, repeatable analysis files of their own benchmark condition. I suspect the best helm…

>I suspect the best helmet for blunt impacts is probably a one/few-time use deal with crumple zones to absorb the energy of the impact and increase the time of the impact. After it's crumpled you would have to swap it out for a new helmet. Bicycle and motorbike helmets already work like this. The energy-dissipative layer is made from expanded polystyrene foam, which permanently deforms and fractures on impact. The do…

Bike helments use MIPS to help mitigate rotational forces. (https://www.bicycleroots.com/blog/mips-helmet-technology-wha...) I wonder if something like that would make sense in the NFL to help lower rotational impact.

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#115

Post by ieoen02mdke »

kingkongjaffa wrote: post #3

You really need accurate material models for this to be any use. Without being able to validate the baseline condition using the same non-linear, anisotropic, material behaviour profiles, there's no way to develop new geometry and/or use novel materials, and actually prove it's better than before. They would ideally release their own, repeatable analysis files of their own benchmark condition. I suspect the best helm…

Seems like the black rubber “bumpers” are intended to provide the “crumple zone” effect

The helmet compresses into the bumpers?

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#116

Post by beachwood23 »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #73
vermontdevil wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rugby does not have a helmet (except for the padded ones) and yet they still have concussion issues. I think there’s no clear answer although I agree about removing face mask. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC155428/

I played organized American Football from the time I was a kid. Went to at the time the biggest high school in the state. I don't recall ever having any kind of head injuries despite getting hit a lot. Went out in college to try Rugby as a club sport. First practice, horrific concussion. I am a sample size of one, but I'd much rather my son play American Football than Rugby. If he gets to the college or pro level, th…

One thing to consider is the way you learned to tackle. Tackling technique is very different. If you used the same "Hit em hard" tackling that is common in American Football, I'm not surprised you had a concussion your first day of rugby practice. Your tackling technique didn't emphasize head protection.

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#117

Post by teachrdan »

save_ferris wrote: post #35
kingkongjaffa wrote: post #3

You really need accurate material models for this to be any use. Without being able to validate the baseline condition using the same non-linear, anisotropic, material behaviour profiles, there's no way to develop new geometry and/or use novel materials, and actually prove it's better than before. They would ideally release their own, repeatable analysis files of their own benchmark condition. I suspect the best helm…

The issue with the crash safety comparison is that helmets need to withstand many impacts before being replaced since it would be crazy to replace a helmet every play or two. One possible answer is that, in order to truly solve this problem, the sport must do away with facemasks or helmets altogether. Mike Ditka has long proposed removing the facemask, claiming that it has encouraged players to weaponize their heads…

You could argue that boxing gloves make boxing more dangerous. Gloves protect the boxer's hands, not their opponents as is widely believed. As per the Wikipedia article below, punches to the head were less common in the bare-knuckle boxing days for fear of boxers injuring their hands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_glove#Safety

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#118

Post by Someone »

joshuas wrote: post #113
kolbe wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Football enriches most universities, giving them extra funds to do things like provide scholarships.

This is not true, most universities lose money on their sports programs.

I don’t know whether it is true, but “Football enriches most universities“ is not inconsistent with that. Football may bring in less money than the other sports cost.

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#120

Post by post_break »

matte_black wrote: post #10

Only thing safer helmets will do is encourage players to hit harder and harder, until someone really gets killed. I hope one day I will get to see the end of football. Why would any parent enroll their child in this sport?

At what point do we stop banning things because someone else doesn't like it?
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