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The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

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Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#391
post #384

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Or Bitcoin grows its value.

Bitcoin growing its value (deflating) is precisely the problem because then you have no reason to take the risk to invest in the first place since you'll reap the benefits by merely doing nothing and holding your coins that keep getting more valuable.

At the same time, it allows you to put brakes on your investment ("lose only up to the deflation!") and invest more. And since your other savings are growing in value as well, you are able to invest more and into more risky projects.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#392
post #107
post #88

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Alternatively, if things really go that sideways bitcoin will be the only valuable currency in the world.

Bitcoin requires an Internet, computers, and electricity to function.

I does not require internet. You can make a wallet without, although it wont be very useful without moving btc into it which will require internet or some peer to peer network with the blockchain on it.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#393
post #168

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And kicked yourself for that $180 Taco Bell when it peaked at $18,000, right?

No, I do DCA. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dollarcostaveraging.asp

To buy Bitcoin, sure. When it hit $18,000 you would still look back at the $2 (then) worth that you spent at $200 / bitcoin and regret it.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#394
post #57

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Indeed. The stockholm syndrome of Keynesianism is pervasive and unnoticed by many. The correct response to erosion of value is hoarding.

The correct response to erosion of value is investing as long as there are good investments to be found. This is the idea behind inflationary money (which is a broader concept than Keynesianism). The important ideas of Keynes in a nutshell: * Monetary velocity: wealth is a verb, not a noun. The wealth of nations is measured in their rate of transactions, not how much cash or idle assets they are hoarding. * Idle vs.…

I said nothing about Keynes -- I said Keynesianism. You understood this meaning well.

Would you concede that the economic policies rooted in Keynes's ideas created an environment that allowed for the snowballing issues we have?

The issue that isn't present in your comment is top-down imposed order vs. bottom-up emergent order. To me, the former is degenerative, while the latter is sustainable.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#395
post #363

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Does investment really grind to a halt though? I'm thinking people would just demand a higher return on their investments before they parted with their cash. Recently, many countries had negative interest rates. So I suppose people were being incentivized to find "investments" that would return 0% on their money. Was that a good thing? Also, inflation means everyone needs to be investors or the money they worked hard…

> Does investment really grind to a halt though? Well, it's discouraged, but yes, basically. Under inflation, you need to invest money just to stay even. The lower inflation is, the less urgent the need to invest. With deflation, you're somewhat incentivized not to lend. A fixed money supply guarantees deflation, so yes, this would significantly reduce lending and the economic growth that lending stimulates. > Also,…

> If Scrooge McDuck has $5M in his mattress, his inflation-adjusted net worth increased by $100,000. He can retire and spend the rest of his life living very comfortably on the equivalent of $90k/year, and despite him doing no work, despite him incurring no financial risk, somehow every year he'll get a little wealthier.

He'll have to part with some of his wealth whenever buying something, and eventually it will still run out. It's not a stock that produces dividends, you have to spend the principal to take advantage of the value growth. Think of it as owning a $5M home that you have to sell a part of each time you buy something, even though the house increases in value.

> How is that possible? Who's paying for his life of luxury? Joe Sixpack. Deflation is quite literally a tax by capital on labor.

Joe Sixpack's salary would increase in value by default. As in, by default salaries would track GDP growth, how does that look like a tax to you? Companies will have to actively tell people "we're going to reduce your salary", which helps workers in the negotiation.

> How is that possible? Who's paying for his life of luxury? Joe Sixpack.

Or whoever is after the currency, just like whoever wants to buy a house pays for equity value growth.

> "I think some of that GDP growth created by workers should go to anyone with money." AFAIK this is universally understood to be a Bad Thing (tm) by virtually everyone.

As opposed to "I think some of that GDP growth created by workers should go to banks so that they can charge interest on everyone else and make easy profits."

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#396

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i think you're arguing semantics. if most people dont view the forked chain as valid and prefer the original, then a new bitcoin isn't created per se.

That's why BTC's value went down when BCH forked, right? Even a moderately successful fork will hurt BTC's value.

It actually went up, somehow.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I feel like bitcoin people live in some kind of alternate reality that I simply don't understand. I can tell. You seem to think Bitcoin is another inflationary currency. The excitement is that, Donald Trump doesnt have control over Bitcoin. China doesnt have control over bitcoin. No government does. People with computers have control over it. There are 21,000,000 Bitcoin ever ever ever. No amount of awful government…

"The excitement is that, Donald Trump doesnt have control over Bitcoin. China doesnt have control over bitcoin. No government does. People with computers have control over it. There are 21,000,000 Bitcoin ever ever ever. No amount of awful government can change that." What I don't understand is how you think your are insulated with bitcoin. If Trump does something so catastrophically stupid that USD is worthless, wha…

> How will bitcoin insulate you from something like the 07 recession, it won't make finding a job easier.

Obviously you're not 100% protected, but you're more protected from anything that doesn't affect the entire world.

Or do you think that holding dollars exposes you to an Amazon bankruptcy just as much as holding Amazon gift cards?

> BTC instantly becomes worthless without widespread internet access. Without network access, what value is in a blockchain?

Have you looked around at the world you live in? If network access ceases to exist the entire economy will collapse, I don't think Bitcoin is your biggest worry there.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I feel like bitcoin people live in some kind of alternate reality that I simply don't understand. I can tell. You seem to think Bitcoin is another inflationary currency. The excitement is that, Donald Trump doesnt have control over Bitcoin. China doesnt have control over bitcoin. No government does. People with computers have control over it. There are 21,000,000 Bitcoin ever ever ever. No amount of awful government…

> China doesnt have control over bitcoin. I thought China had over 50% of the mining power

mining power doesn't let you break the Bitcoin consensus rules, like the limit of 21M BTC.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've had gold, and it was a massive equalizer between major powers. If someone overspent, they had to be smarter until they regained their wealth. Inflation has destroys savings for the masses who keeps cash more than investment. We've seen this a half dozen times in the last 100 years.

> We've had gold, and it was a massive equalizer between major powers. The gold standard was one of the worst fiscal policies ever. Its use was directly responsible for the destruction of millions of lives. Arguing to bring it back shows incredible nativity and a severe lack of history. I suggest you read up on how horrible of an idea the gold standard was before you spout this kind of nonsense.

> I suggest you read up on how horrible of an idea the gold standard was before you spout this kind of nonsense.

Can you propose some reading material?

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#400
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the crazy part? I bought BTC at 200, 400, 800, 1200, 3000, 11,000, and 7,000. I like BTC wayyy better than USD. If I need to spend 2$ at taco bell, I'll just use my bitcoin.

And kicked yourself for that $180 Taco Bell when it peaked at $18,000, right?

Just as much as you kicked yourself for spending $2 on Taco Bell instead of buying Bitcoin at the exact same time.

It's the same thing.

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