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GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

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Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#361

Post by pishpash »

walshemj wrote: post #265
rebuilder wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the frugal/high spender conflict, I can kind of see how that might happen. I try to buy quality goods because cheap stuff doesn't last. That means spending more up front to spend less in the long run. So frugal, but also maybe high spender? My mom always says: if you're poor, you can't afford to buy cheap.

I think this might be it eg spending $250 instead of $50 on shoes or boots for longer life and improved comfort.

$250 shoes do not last 5 times as long as $50 shoes. Improved comfort is the main benefit.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#362

Post by FooBarWidget »

sunsetMurk wrote: post #126
isostatic wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you don't target EU customers, you're fine.

Do you have any references/citations for this? Would help me out! I'm trying to put together a one-pager for my team.

I recently wrote about this subject (with sources). See these:

https://www.joyfulbikeshedding.com/blog/2018-04-17-should-no...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17058645

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#363

Post by sah2ed »

scarface74 wrote: post #271
madeofpalk wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the hundreds of mostly incorrect or irrelevant demographics that Twitter has be in, I would still say there’s a huge amount of waste going on. At least with offline advertising (like TV or print) the “fuzziness” is very explicit. Here, Twitter sells you that you can target “dog owners”, but nowhere through the Twitter ad buy process does it tell you how BS that targeting is.

And that's why Twitter is not doing as well as Facebook. Facebook doesn't need algorithms to know what you are interested in, where you like to eat, etc. You explicitly tell them in your info and by what types of articles you like and share, and what you post.

Plus the fact that they can also average your interests from information volunteered by your friends and family because "birds of a feather, flock together".

IOW, Twitter followers may be total strangers to many IRL, unlike Facebook followers.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#364

Post by TeMPOraL »

vertexFarm wrote: post #332
TeMPOraL wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to. It's not simple, if you're not in the US or Germany :<.

Germany, eh? Interesting. What kind of companies in that field are in Germany? I wish I knew more about this subject.

Too many to list. DLR - Germany's NASA - is a key player in Europe's space industry, so it draws all kinds of space companies to its neighbourhood.

EDIT: those two links might give you a quick overview:

- https://spaceindividuals.com/space-companies

- https://spaceindividuals.com/space-jobs?country=Germany (over 50% of all listed, but not surprising, since the site's owner is in Germany as well)

Right now, I'm trying to map the industry myself.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#365

Post by notimetorelax »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #100
icebraining wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring them to check an "I agree to be tracked" checkbox and signing an agreement (which has just happened to me yesterday in an EU country in accordance to GDPR) before they can use a product/service is hardly much better. That's specifically not allowed under the GDPR. Either the information is needed to provide the service (and needed means actually needed, not "my business model depends on it"), in which case…

I have visited a drugstore to buy some vitamins yesterday. They have handled me a touch-screen where I had to check a checkbox (saying that I agree to allow my medicines shopping history to be stored and analyzed to track my health (which I obviously don't want them to do actually)) and an electronic signature tablet with a stylus where I had to put my signature. This was a mandatory condition for continuing using a…

I might be wrong, but I don’t think that this is allowed under GDPR. They have to offer to you the same services with or without the consent to collect your data.

Also, under GDPR, you can always request export and removal of all your profile data from their data stores.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#366

Post by taysic »

hannasanarion wrote: post #342
taysic wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'user account deletion was already possible.' Do you not use backups? How was this done within 10 minutes?

GDPR doesn't say you have to purge backups. That's nonsense spread by people who have assumed it's stupid without reading it.

"The individual can be assured that their personal data will not be restored back to production systems (except in certain rare instances, e.g., the need to recover from a natural disaster or serious security breach). In such cases, the user’s personal data may be restored from backups, but the controller will take the necessary steps to honor the initial request and erase the primary instance of the data again."

It sounds like you need to erase the data again even if you used a backup. That means you need a separate database of the entries you deleted. So it's still unclear how that could be integrated within 10 minutes.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#367

Post by ebullientocelot »

pishpash wrote: post #361
walshemj wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this might be it eg spending $250 instead of $50 on shoes or boots for longer life and improved comfort.

$250 shoes do not last 5 times as long as $50 shoes. Improved comfort is the main benefit.

The math can work out in some cases. I've had my 400$ Allen Edmunds for 8 years, some wear, but generally still in fantastic shape and very comfortable. Prior to getting them I bought 1-3 pairs of ~70$ department store shoes per year.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#368

Post by PeterisP »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #328
manigandham wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are not that many actual hard data science experts in adtech. Much of it is smoke and mirrors with every vendor claiming "AI" even if it's just some excel tweaking. The industry can't even agree on standard metrics or run a campaign without 20% discrepancies. Also you can definitely apply ML techniques to data without PII, it's just harder, which actually makes the job more in-demand for high-quality talent.

As someone who has just left the advertising industry, and was doing data stuff, the real issue is that a lot of companies have a lot of data but almost none of it has any actual useful information content in it. It’s a bit of a hard concept to explain to explain to people because they go “but there’s a hundred something columns, and hundreds of millions of rows!”, you can have all the data you want, but if it’s all…

In statistics, there's a classic quote by John Tukey "The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does not ensure that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body of data."

This should be printed in large letters on the wall of anybody claiming to do data science.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#369

Post by PeterisP »

icebraining wrote: post #123
qwerty456127 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have visited a drugstore to buy some vitamins yesterday. They have handled me a touch-screen where I had to check a checkbox (saying that I agree to allow my medicines shopping history to be stored and analyzed to track my health (which I obviously don't want them to do actually)) and an electronic signature tablet with a stylus where I had to put my signature. This was a mandatory condition for continuing using a…

That's a good question, I don't know if it's valid to offer discounts and such in exchange for consent. It goes against the EU principles ("personal information cannot be conceived as a mere economic asset"), but I'm not sure if the law actually prevents it.

One of the criteria for freely given consent is that the customer must be able to revoke it at any time without detriment.

If revoking consent causes a detriment, then it's not freely given, and so that "consent" isn't sufficient to grant the data controller a legal permission to use that data.

Quoting recital 42 from https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-42/ "[...] Consent should not be regarded as freely given if the data subject has no genuine or free choice or is unable to refuse or withdraw consent without detriment.", so it's quite explicit.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#370

Post by geocar »

ealexhudson wrote: post #171
geocar wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it's absolutely true, insofar as I do not have to obtain someone's consent to have logs of their IP address (which is what we're talking about[1]) [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17060280 The GDPR requires informing of use, transmitting preference, and protecting rights, of things that can potentially identify an individual, but this is easy to accommodate by simply not being an asshole. You're not unde…

Jurisprudence in this area disagrees with you: "online media services provider may collect and use personal data relating to a user of those services, without his consent, only in so far as that [..] that data are necessary to facilitate and charge for the specific use of those services by that user" http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&doc... This is related to the DPA; but the GDPR doesn't chang…

I'm ignoring German opinions since Art 51-52 suggest only the ICO is going to be involved.

> if you're arguing collecting IP addresses is absolutely necessary for you to facilitate the service, no, you don't need consent. But I would not want to have to defend that, since disabling collection is as simple as a webserver reconfig.

Using IP addresses for audit and security is best practices; I can use the IP address to make sure that a user isn't logging in from two countries at the same time (and then require a call e.g. to whitelist).

Thinking of an IP address in binary, as you're suggesting is extremely dangerous: The GDPR is not supposed to prevent you from thinking about what you're doing.

> That's reflected in their site (I gave you a specific example).

Your example doesn't come out and say IP Addresses are always personal data. Try again.

They've previously said the opposite:

https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organisations/documents/1591/pe...

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