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GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

blogs.harvard.edu

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Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#121

Post by rebuilder »

madeofpalk wrote: post #112
rossdavidh wrote: post #59

Oddly, I think the article underestimates the size of the change coming. I think one side affect of the surge of IT into advertising, is that it has become easier to measure exactly how well advertising works. By and large, it doesn't, very well. I am reminded of this, from Paul Graham, about his time at Yahoo: http://www.paulgraham.com/yahoo.html "...The reason Yahoo didn't care about a technique that extracted the…

> By and large, it doesn't, very well. I know Twitter isn't known for being the best at advertising, but it was made exceptionally clear to me that online advertising is a massive bunch of lies when I did my GDPR Twitter data export and it included me in a bunch of incorrect, non-sensical and contradictory ad targeting groups. Twitter claims I: * Own a cat, dog and other animal (I don't) * Have between $100k- $999k l…

For the frugal/high spender conflict, I can kind of see how that might happen.

I try to buy quality goods because cheap stuff doesn't last. That means spending more up front to spend less in the long run. So frugal, but also maybe high spender?

My mom always says: if you're poor, you can't afford to buy cheap.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#122

Post by wukerplank »

lajhsdfkl wrote: post #23
wukerplank wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bunch of strawmen here. > Is it wrong if I sit on my porch and record in a notebook the hair color of different people? If you only count the number of redheads, you are in the clear. If you follow them around, find out where else they go, where they live, how many people live in their household, the household income, etc., you might violate some laws. > Is it wrong if I observe that one of my coworkers has a Harley…

>Bunch of strawmen here. Learn the definition of the words you are using before using them. The only thing this statement shows is you are arguing in bad faith, have no interest in attempting to gain new perspective and simply want to shut my argument down since it doesn't agree with your priors. >If you only count the number of redheads, you are in the clear. If you follow them around, find out where else they go, w…

> So again, explain how it is unethical for me to use information that I have observed from my porch?

I never said that making observations from your porch is unethical. Yet, you think I should explain to you why it is. Classic straw man.

What I say is that collecting/trading/processing of personal data without consent is unethical. And that is the core business of today's ad-networks.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#123

Post by icebraining »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #100
icebraining wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring them to check an "I agree to be tracked" checkbox and signing an agreement (which has just happened to me yesterday in an EU country in accordance to GDPR) before they can use a product/service is hardly much better. That's specifically not allowed under the GDPR. Either the information is needed to provide the service (and needed means actually needed, not "my business model depends on it"), in which case…

I have visited a drugstore to buy some vitamins yesterday. They have handled me a touch-screen where I had to check a checkbox (saying that I agree to allow my medicines shopping history to be stored and analyzed to track my health (which I obviously don't want them to do actually)) and an electronic signature tablet with a stylus where I had to put my signature. This was a mandatory condition for continuing using a…

That's a good question, I don't know if it's valid to offer discounts and such in exchange for consent. It goes against the EU principles ("personal information cannot be conceived as a mere economic asset"), but I'm not sure if the law actually prevents it.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#124

Post by geocar »

simion314 wrote: post #96
geocar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KYC. Google almost rabidly doesn't want to connect who is sponsoring with what they're sponsoring. I'm an ad network that does (some) tracking of users. I make it a point to connect advertisers with the publishers I work with because I know all of my publishers. I think this service has value. Whilst I charge substantially more than Google does, I'm confident I don't participate in any ad fraud. If a Google rep. sugg…

Can't you start a new kind of targeting, instead of tracking and analyzing the users you use your past expertise plus your data from non EU countries and profile the content, so on cat pictures you know what ads work well, on car sites you know what ads work, it would make more sense then seeing an IDE ad on a porn site.

Sure, but I (as an advertiser) don't want to buy advertising on cat pages, but to reach people who like cat pages. Google tells me this is their interest; that they have exhibited behaviours that lead them to believe this is their interest, and because they can make self-driving cars, I believe them.

... but: The truth is, it's just a cookie that is held by people who visited pages about cats, and people who like money.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#125

Post by lajhsdfkl »

wukerplank wrote: post #98
vilmosi wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit baffled how you think that recording personal information of people you see from your porch, without even telling them what or why are you doing it, is anything but unethical.

Let me un-baffle you: It's not personal if the data is anonymous. If in the evening you leave your porch and have a list of: 5 blonde, 6 raven, 5 brunette and 2 redhead, nobody's personal rights where violated. Hair color alone is not personal data.

So it's unethical if I am able to personally identify them? So if I have a house party open to everyone in the block but to enter they need to sign their name in a guest book and I have cameras all over my home to prevent property damage, is what I'm doing unethical?

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#126

Post by sunsetMurk »

isostatic wrote: post #107
islanderfun wrote: post #101

Completely oblivious and ignorant here: If a company has no official office in Europe, how does this affect them? All advertisement and business focus is say only in the US, is it business as usual? What if an EU citizen decides to sign up? Are US companies forced to deny customers not par of say an IP block (half assed method I know, but just speaking in general)?

As long as you don't target EU customers, you're fine.

Do you have any references/citations for this?

Would help me out! I'm trying to put together a one-pager for my team.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#127

Post by geocar »

evfanknitram wrote: post #50
geocar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ICO does not consider IP addresses personal data since more than one person could use a computer in a household.

That seems like a weak argument though. Two humans can also have same name and zipcode. They can also have same personal number and bank account number if they are in different countries. Without tracking and correlation, most information on its own is useless.

Yes. That's The ICO's position:

https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organisations/documents/1591/pe...

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#128

Post by tzakrajs »

icebraining wrote: post #105
tzakrajs wrote: post #95

Tracking cookies gave the ability for small advertisers to understand their customers and their other consumption in ways that only the largest marketers could. The author thinks big brands are everything and can't see how letting smaller players sell to customers could help the economy. He uses an arbitrary standard of privacy to argue on the behalf of the largest household brands. I think he's missing the forest fo…

Can you flesh that out a bit more? What are those ways?

Customer focus groups. Literally paying customers to spend time with staff to learn their habits and thoughts about the advertising. The big brands have the funds and expertise to directly gather enough data to come up with strong predictors of behavior.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#129

Post by geocar »

DanBC wrote: post #63
geocar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ICO does not consider IP addresses personal data since more than one person could use a computer in a household.

That's their position at the moment. GDPR makes it a bit more explicit: if you can combine the IP address with other information to identify a natural person it becomes personal data.

Sure, but by itself, an IP address isn't personal data.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#130

Post by jlmorton »

madeofpalk wrote: post #112
rossdavidh wrote: post #59

Oddly, I think the article underestimates the size of the change coming. I think one side affect of the surge of IT into advertising, is that it has become easier to measure exactly how well advertising works. By and large, it doesn't, very well. I am reminded of this, from Paul Graham, about his time at Yahoo: http://www.paulgraham.com/yahoo.html "...The reason Yahoo didn't care about a technique that extracted the…

> By and large, it doesn't, very well. I know Twitter isn't known for being the best at advertising, but it was made exceptionally clear to me that online advertising is a massive bunch of lies when I did my GDPR Twitter data export and it included me in a bunch of incorrect, non-sensical and contradictory ad targeting groups. Twitter claims I: * Own a cat, dog and other animal (I don't) * Have between $100k- $999k l…

> I was very disappointed that the Google and Facebook data exports don't contain this data.

Facebook has it available, if not in their Download Your Information tool. Go to Settings -> Ads -> Your Information -> Categories.

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