Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

blogs.harvard.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 454 posts

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#131

Post by lajhsdfkl »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #92
lajhsdfkl wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are so baffled by it you can explain in simple terms why it's unethical?

I'm not disagreeing with vilmosi, I just want to add that I think it's important to really talk things through, instead of just being baffled/angry that some people have different ethical views. It has long come to my attention that the way we engineers look at ads differs a lot from what average people think. A lot of average people like ads. Many of them are actively interested in the latest deals. Example: I disab…

I personally hate ads, I block them wherever I can and I use a vpn for any traffic I don't want associated with my name. I still understand that people trying to monetize their service is not unethical and that the world would be significantly worse off if we were to ban ads as a way of monetization.

Also I have had the same experience as you, I know people many tech illiterate folk that actually like seeing ads.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#132

Post by jasonlotito »

ealexhudson wrote: post #89
jasonlotito wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Under GDPR guidance, IP addresses are considered personal data because they can be used to identify an individual in a moment in time. That's actually the most frightening thing I've heard in a long time. Does the GDPR actually make that connection? If so, it literally links people to an IP address, rather than simply a connection. If that line is accurate, I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned before, associating…

Yes, it explicitly mentions it, because it's actually very often true. Of course there are plenty of examples where it would be extremely difficult to link to an individual, but there are tonnes of examples where it's extremely easy. GDPR says that because it's sometimes easy, you have to consider it personal data. Again, it's not always saying an IP address is a personal identify. It just is often enough.

> Again, it's not always saying an IP address is a personal identify. It just is often enough.

Well, that's not what you said or implied. I'm just thinking of all the cases in the US were the defense is you can't assume that an IP address ties to a specific person. Anyone could use the computer, or someone could attach to an open wifi.

Basically, if the legal argument is the IP address can be associated with a person, that raises legal concerns.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#133

Post by enraged_camel »

jamiequint wrote: post #72
enraged_camel wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Website owners can have visibility on their visitors if those visitors explicitly consent to it. Not sure what is so difficult to understand about this.

So if I don't think that Walmart should be able to record me with security cameras while I'm in the store I should have the right to demand that they ask me to sign a waiver before entering the store? Shouldn't it be Walmart's right to do what they want on their property, and my right to decide not to visit Walmart if I don't agree with that. Isn't the converse an infringement of Walmart's rights?

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the cameras at Walmart are for security only. I don't believe Walmart is using facial-recognition technology to identify visitors, track their behaviors (which aisles they visit, how long they look at specific products, etc.) and then using it to other retailers for them to then target those visitors with ads.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#134

Post by FooBarWidget »

jamiequint wrote: post #72
enraged_camel wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Website owners can have visibility on their visitors if those visitors explicitly consent to it. Not sure what is so difficult to understand about this.

So if I don't think that Walmart should be able to record me with security cameras while I'm in the store I should have the right to demand that they ask me to sign a waiver before entering the store? Shouldn't it be Walmart's right to do what they want on their property, and my right to decide not to visit Walmart if I don't agree with that. Isn't the converse an infringement of Walmart's rights?

Sometimes, guaranteeing freedom for one party requires taking away freedom/rights from another party. For example freedom from slavery means taking away the right to have slaves. Society has to make a choice: which one is more important? In case of GDPR, the EU has chosen: the privacy of citizen is more important than business concerns.

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#135

Post by lovich »

islanderfun wrote: post #101

Completely oblivious and ignorant here: If a company has no official office in Europe, how does this affect them? All advertisement and business focus is say only in the US, is it business as usual? What if an EU citizen decides to sign up? Are US companies forced to deny customers not par of say an IP block (half assed method I know, but just speaking in general)?

If you dont have money, materials, or employees flowing through Europe there is very little they could do to you even if you actively flaunted the law. They could always block access to your site, or even try to sanction your business but unless they are willing to invade your country to physically stop you they don't have very many options.

There is always the chance that your own government will enforce EU rulings against you but at that point either your own government thinks GPDR should be enforced or you're in a very weak country and are going to have to capitulate to the EUs power anyway, much like small Latin American countries were forced to follow US policies

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#136

Post by gaius »

Paul-ish wrote: post #91
Animats wrote: post #14

From one of the references in the article: The Google consent interface greets site visitors with a request to use data to tailor advertising, with equally prominent “no” and “yes” buttons. If a reader declines to be tracked, he or she sees a notice saying the ads will be less relevant and asking to “agree” or go back to the previous page.

What if Google emotionally bribed people? eg "For every month you have targeted ads enabled, we will donate 10 cents to [INSERT CHARITY]."

I wouldn’t call it bribery - Bing will make a donation if you get enough Bing points. I’ll be generating £3 for the Special Olympics this month (or I could have chosen a £5 voucher in the Microsoft store).

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#137

Post by lajhsdfkl »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #9
shawn wrote: post #2

And that’s on top of the main problem: tracking people without their knowledge, approval or a court order is just flat-out wrong. The fact that it can be done is no excuse. Nor is the monstrous sum of money made by it. I use Piwik ( https://github.com/matomo-org/matomo ) and track visitors without their knowledge or consent, because I need analytics. Piwik is also configured to respect the "Do not track" header, so o…

You shouldn't need to keep any personal information on your visitors to get meaningful data.

How can AB testing work without storing personally identifiable information?

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#139

Post by guitarbill »

jamiequint wrote: post #72
enraged_camel wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Website owners can have visibility on their visitors if those visitors explicitly consent to it. Not sure what is so difficult to understand about this.

So if I don't think that Walmart should be able to record me with security cameras while I'm in the store I should have the right to demand that they ask me to sign a waiver before entering the store? Shouldn't it be Walmart's right to do what they want on their property, and my right to decide not to visit Walmart if I don't agree with that. Isn't the converse an infringement of Walmart's rights?

Why are people obsessed with companies rights? Do they not have enough already?

There's an asymmetry between what a company can do politically/legally given it's resources and what an individual can do. This is why countries generally have some kind of laws protecting consumers.

Security cameras recording footage and it not being used in 99.999% of the time when no crime occurs is fine. The tapes aren't kept forever. Just as having server logs to identify malicious actors i.e. hackers or scammers is fine. What's not fine is e.g. running facial recognition on the security camera footage, or figuring out who bought what (cough Amazon Go).

Re: GDPR will pop the adtech bubble

#140

Post by mayniac »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #100
icebraining wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring them to check an "I agree to be tracked" checkbox and signing an agreement (which has just happened to me yesterday in an EU country in accordance to GDPR) before they can use a product/service is hardly much better. That's specifically not allowed under the GDPR. Either the information is needed to provide the service (and needed means actually needed, not "my business model depends on it"), in which case…

I have visited a drugstore to buy some vitamins yesterday. They have handled me a touch-screen where I had to check a checkbox (saying that I agree to allow my medicines shopping history to be stored and analyzed to track my health (which I obviously don't want them to do actually)) and an electronic signature tablet with a stylus where I had to put my signature. This was a mandatory condition for continuing using a…

Although it initially seems kind of scummy, isn't this better than the majority of ad services anyway? In exchange for selling your medical data, you get a discount. It's essentially getting paid for sharing your data.

Of course if it's essential medication which people can't afford without the discount then that's another matter, but otherwise it seems kind of fair to me. And it gets a bit more complicated if you're in America where that data is going to be used by health insurance to adjust your premiums.

Post reply on HN