Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always) • Hacker News Board

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#111

Post by wmeredith » Sat, May 12, 2018, 12:27 PM UTC

lucb1e wrote: post #91

How many months has it been? I'm quite sick of hearing about net neutrality. Europe has it so if it's so necessary, vote with your feet (hosting and VPN wise) and they'll get the message. And if they block vpns, I've heard great success stories of community Internet which is supposedly faster and cheaper. You might even be able to get net neutrality by just running your own ISP rather than trying to get huge corps in…

Firstly, it's been years not months ;)

And no. We can't just stop talking about it, clearly. Some of us feel this is the issue (who controls the flow of information) that will decide all other issues moving forward.

How about you vote with your "feet" and go find some other online forum where you can converse with your fellow defeatists? Oh, you like this place and want to stay? Maybe you love it and are invested and want to fight for it? I see.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#112

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 12, 2018, 12:39 PM UTC

nsomaru wrote: post #47

ryanpcmcquen wrote: post #46

I am yet to hear anyone who is anti Net Neutrality arguing for electricity or other utilities not to be regulated ...

Erm, this is not about whether the internet is regulated or not. In fact, there might even be 'pro net neutrality' regulation. Imagine you paid more for electricity when using your geyser.

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#113

Post by brynjolf » Sat, May 12, 2018, 1:12 PM UTC

lucb1e wrote: post #91

How many months has it been? I'm quite sick of hearing about net neutrality. Europe has it so if it's so necessary, vote with your feet (hosting and VPN wise) and they'll get the message. And if they block vpns, I've heard great success stories of community Internet which is supposedly faster and cheaper. You might even be able to get net neutrality by just running your own ISP rather than trying to get huge corps in…

That sounds like you given up. Don't let your brittle spirit deter others.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#114

Post by brynjolf » Sat, May 12, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

tokyodude wrote: post #109

this is tangentially related but what are mozilla's plans for autoplay in Firefox? Chrome just effectively broke net neutrality in Chrome by whitelisting a bunch of websites. They claim chrome will learn your preferences and auto-magically whitelist others sites you run videos on but that hardly seems fair. Why did the other sites not have to pass that hurdle? Worse, it only works if you're logged in where as whiteli…

That is one strange whataboutism. Why would you ask that here unless you want to change the conversation to something else, something that suits the corporations more? Net neutrality is more important than autoplaying videos, without it you won't be able to decide what you autoplay.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#115

Post by Jonnax » Sat, May 12, 2018, 1:27 PM UTC

ghba66 wrote: post #79

Jonnax wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company is free to align themselves with any goal they wish to have. They see that their strategy aligns with the majority of their users and the user's they wish to attract. You have the freedom to not use their product if you don't align with them. If you're not from the US what country are you from that would have a benefit from eliminating net neutrality? What are your reasons for not supporting it? The argumen…

>A company is free to align themselves with any goal they wish to have. They see that their strategy aligns with the majority of their users and the user's they wish to attract. You have the freedom to not use their product if you don't align with them. They are just virtue signalling. >If you're not from the US what country are you from that would have a benefit from eliminating net neutrality? What are your reasons…

>They are just virtue signalling.

They've filed court cases against the FCC. They're activly trying to change legislation.

If that's virtue signalling then it's a stupid phrase that means nothing.

>I am from a country in the EU. I don't support NN because I want to have access to zero-rated services. As a consumer, they make my life easier and my bill lower. I want to have the freedom of choosing whether I want NN in my connection or not. I don't want the government to take that freedom away from me.

An ISP zero rating facebook, Netflix or Spotify just entrenches a big player in their dominant position.

That's bad for the market and shouldn't be encouraged. How can a new entrant into a market compete when the ISP or mobile operator is giving the major player preferential treatment.

As a consumer sure you don't care but these are exactly the scenarios that a government should ensure a level playing field in.

Even in the sense of if a mobile operator is Zero rating a music provider then the operator must allow a choice and all music vendors must be able to easily join the programme.

Hacker news is quite focused on startups, creating barriers for market entry isn't very startup friendly.

>I suppose their diversity does not include diversity of thought.

LOL. So a company can't stand for anything because they might upset someone?

Have a bit of self awareness. Having a persecution complex when you're on the winning side is pathetic.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#116

Post by dizzystar » Sat, May 12, 2018, 1:30 PM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #94

Fnoord wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find amazing is that there are still people on this planet who oppose anything a government does, so they end up at the perils of corporations. I guess, according to you, GDPR is also a Bad Thing (tm)? Hint: it is a response to an industry which failed to regulate itself. When corporations cannot manage themselves, the government must interact by rule of law. An example of that is the sale of frequencies such…

it is a response to an industry which failed to regulate itself Pretty much everything websites do with your data are from voluntary exchange. We decide to subscribe to a website a visit it regularly and give to it your data. We decide to surf some website without ad blockers / web trackers extensions, and we don't want to pay for social medias and some of us actually like well targeted ads. I fail to see what the co…

I opened a Facebook about one year ago. The information they had on me was rather disturbing.

I never gave Facebook permission, directly or implied, to track my circle of past friends or make assumptions about my personal interests.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#117

Post by ttoinou » Sat, May 12, 2018, 1:33 PM UTC

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #98

ttoinou wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in France countryside too and we have a lot of different ISP

So, how exactly do you have access to a lot of different ISPs? 1. There are a lot of competing networks in the ground. Like, there are five cables reaching your house owned by five different ISPs that you can choose from. 2. There is one cable reaching your house, but the owner doesn't care too much about making money themselves, so they allow competitors to use it at a price where they can compete with the owner. 3.…

Don't know, sorry

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#118

Post by Fnoord » Sat, May 12, 2018, 1:35 PM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #94

Fnoord wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find amazing is that there are still people on this planet who oppose anything a government does, so they end up at the perils of corporations. I guess, according to you, GDPR is also a Bad Thing (tm)? Hint: it is a response to an industry which failed to regulate itself. When corporations cannot manage themselves, the government must interact by rule of law. An example of that is the sale of frequencies such…

it is a response to an industry which failed to regulate itself Pretty much everything websites do with your data are from voluntary exchange. We decide to subscribe to a website a visit it regularly and give to it your data. We decide to surf some website without ad blockers / web trackers extensions, and we don't want to pay for social medias and some of us actually like well targeted ads. I fail to see what the co…

> I fail to see what the corps should have done to regulate themselves

Being transparent, opaque, and using opt-in.

> Pretty much everything websites do with your data are from voluntary exchange.

Not at all. If it were voluntary, I'd visit a website and it'd say: "by using this website, you consent that we sell your profiled data to company A for purpose X."

1) They don't word it like that, they word it extremely vague.

2) Its obfuscated and opt-out (adblocker is opt-out).

3) If we knew beforehand what exactly was done with our data we could knowingly consent. We don't know exactly what is being done with our data. To whom is it sold? For what purpose?

4) On the websites where I bought a subscription/premium the ads are turned off but the tracking is NOT.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#119

Post by Fnoord » Sat, May 12, 2018, 1:40 PM UTC

RaleyField wrote: post #93

Fnoord wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find amazing is that there are still people on this planet who oppose anything a government does, so they end up at the perils of corporations. I guess, according to you, GDPR is also a Bad Thing (tm)? Hint: it is a response to an industry which failed to regulate itself. When corporations cannot manage themselves, the government must interact by rule of law. An example of that is the sale of frequencies such…

> Hint: it is a response to an industry which failed to regulate itself. Hint: maybe stop being condescending. Also, I'm from EU and I'm split on GDPR. On one side I acknowledge its benefits and where it's coming from (the industry is known for highly morally dubious practices), on the other hand I don't agree on principle with the implication that users don't/can't have free will to enter into (however unfair) contr…

> on the other hand I don't agree on principle with the implication that users don't/can't have free will to enter into (however unfair) contracts these companies wish to use.

In a capitalist society such apathy leads to a survival of the fittest.

I can give many examples of contracts which would be unfair. For example, a minor cannot consent to a contract because they're a minor. That is fair to protect minors (at age of ~20 a person is physically an adult and around ~25 the brain is fully grown). I can apply your logic "on principle" there as well. Principles like these lack nuance which realistic situations demand because they are not black and white.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#120

Post by ryanpcmcquen » Sat, May 12, 2018, 1:46 PM UTC

nsomaru wrote: post #47

ryanpcmcquen wrote: post #46

I am yet to hear anyone who is anti Net Neutrality arguing for electricity or other utilities not to be regulated ...

Erm, this is not about whether the internet is regulated or not. In fact, there might even be 'pro net neutrality' regulation. Imagine you paid more for electricity when using your geyser.

This is 100% about ISP regulation.