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Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#41

Post by forapurpose »

earenndil wrote: post #40
forapurpose wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> independent hacker culture Independent hackers need net neutrality; otherwise access to their innovations and startups will be limited, and their access to the Internet from which they get ideas, inspiration, and collaboration, will also be limited. I wonder how that spirit would survive if people only had access to major commercial websites. EDIT: Imagine the FOSS project with no budget to buy access, and any proj…

Would not the 'independent hacker culture' be to found its own, independent ISP?

That sounds a bit challenging:

They'd still need to pay the corporate ISPs to carry or to not completely deprioritize traffic from hackerISP, or else nobody else could reach the hackers' great websites, services, ideas, etc. If hackerISP carried things the corporates didn't like, they could still throttle or kill access to it or to individual domains, protocols, etc.

And how will hackerISP pay for nationwide infrastructure? That's going to need a pretty wealthy independent hacker. Maybe if Linus, Woz, Paul Allen (is he a hacker?), and a few others committed their fortunes to it, they could buy and deploy the fiber and the hardware ... but then there are operations, maintenance, upgrades ...

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#42

Post by eurleif »

craftyguy wrote: post #39
eurleif wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, and right now I'm "regulating" my fingers into typing a comment. Or maybe there's more to the word, particularly in context, than the shortest dictionary definition you were able to find.

Well it's a widely accepted definition[1], so it's a bit ironic that you fail to understand there's more to the word, particularly in context. Popular synonyms include things like "restrict", "restrain", "control". 1) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/regulate

So then you agree I'm regulating my fingers.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#43

Post by theyinwhy »

eurleif wrote: post #42
craftyguy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's a widely accepted definition[1], so it's a bit ironic that you fail to understand there's more to the word, particularly in context. Popular synonyms include things like "restrict", "restrain", "control". 1) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/regulate

So then you agree I'm regulating my fingers.

For your own sake I really hope you are able to regulate your own fingers.

The term gatekeeper is maybe relevant in the context of the more serious side of this conversation. ISPs are gatekeepers and have the say what comes through their gate. They can regulate the flow of information.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#44

Post by theyinwhy »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #29
eurleif wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My ISP is capable of determining the services it offers to me, its customer. Your ISP is capable of determining the services it offers to you, its customer. No ISP is capable of mandating behavior from third parties who haven't chosen to engage in an economic exchange with it, meaning that no ISP is capable of regulation.

My country is capable of determining the services it offers me, its citizen. Your country is capable of determining the services it offers to you, its citizen. No country is capable of mandating behavior from third parties who haven't chosen to engage in a citizenship relationship with it, meaning that no country is capable of regulation.

If you are an US-american I would like to point out your president just regulated how other companies, citizens and countries have to interact with Iran.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#45

Post by rootlocus »

acheron wrote: post #6

I still find it amazing that everything has degraded from the independent hacker culture of the 90s to continually begging for the government to control and regulate the Internet. If you ever posted “what the Internet could really use is for the US Congress to control it!” to Usenet or 1999 Slashdot you would have gotten flamed to a crisp. I mean, God knows I’m not going to use a Google product, so I’m sticking with…

While I understand the sentiment, I don't believe the "independent hacker culture" faced the same issues we do today with regards to accessing the internet.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#47

Post by nsomaru »

ryanpcmcquen wrote: post #46

I am yet to hear anyone who is anti Net Neutrality arguing for electricity or other utilities not to be regulated ...

Erm, this is not about whether the internet is regulated or not.

In fact, there might even be 'pro net neutrality' regulation.

Imagine you paid more for electricity when using your geyser.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#49

Post by dingo_bat »

nsomaru wrote: post #47
ryanpcmcquen wrote: post #46

I am yet to hear anyone who is anti Net Neutrality arguing for electricity or other utilities not to be regulated ...

Erm, this is not about whether the internet is regulated or not. In fact, there might even be 'pro net neutrality' regulation. Imagine you paid more for electricity when using your geyser.

> Erm, this is not about whether the internet is regulated or not.

Then you are in the wrong place, this discussion is about applying the Title 2 regulations on ISPs. I'm not sure which "net neutrality" you are referring to which is not about regulation.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#50

Post by dingo_bat »

dilap wrote: post #9

Has Mozilla said anything about FOSTA or fought against it in any way? I feel like NN is basically just a diversion to deflect attention and energy from things that are actually restricting freedom on the internet.

If you want to understand Mozilla's actions, just treat them like a proxy for Google. Things google cannot publicly speak about, Mozilla does it for them.

In this case, nn by design takes power away from infrastructure companies (ISPs) and gives it to internet services companies (google, facebook, etc.). So Mozilla is very actively supporting it.

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