Earlier quoted context omitted.
As DSC has been mandatory for a few years now in Australia, this means anyone buying a reasonably new 2nd hand car is going to get this important safety technology. This is a good thing. You'd be hard pushed to claim it has brought the prices of cars up. Likewise if all new houses must have solar, it's just going to become the norm and everyone will benefit. Bravo! I wish Australia had made double glazed windows mand…
>Likewise if all new houses must have solar, it's just going to become the norm and everyone will benefit. Bravo! I live in a house built in 1920s. Ever seen someone driving a Model T?
California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes
321–329 of 329 posts
Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
$50k, plus taxes. You bought a car for $2k, but it was a used car. The fair comparison might be a Nissan Versa S, the cheapest new car in America at $12,780. Or maybe your car has more features than that, I don't know. That still puts the Model 3 at a multiple of the cost of that car, but hardly to an insane extent. Hell, in California you can, today, with rebates (yes, you have to pay some money up front) buy a new…
As DSC has been mandatory for a few years now in Australia, this means anyone buying a reasonably new 2nd hand car is going to get this important safety technology. This is a good thing. You'd be hard pushed to claim it has brought the prices of cars up. Likewise if all new houses must have solar, it's just going to become the norm and everyone will benefit. Bravo! I wish Australia had made double glazed windows mand…
Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
Solar panels, themselves, are incredibly cheap, partly because China is dumping their overproduction on the market, partly because we’ve just gotten really good at making them. Most of the price of installing solar is the labor for getting the roofers and electrician to come out, plus in some jurisdictions an architectural study. All of those costs come down dramatically if you’re already bringing in roofers and elec…
For anyone stumbling across this thread, the above is wrong (possibly intentionally so). The cost of the panels and related hardware are roughly 30-50% of the total installed job cost (for me, roughly $6-8k of the $15k total). The rest is standard labor cost for installation, electrical, etc. None of that is unreasonable. If I was doing 100% of the labor myself (which is impossible because I'm not a licensed electric…
Certainly it’s true that a poorly architected solar panel system can be bad for your roof. If you know you have to design the roof for solar panels, that’s much less expensive to do in advance than to try to mitigate bad roofing materials after the fact.
For reference, I just installed solar panels on my roof. The raw cost of the panels was 25% of the full installation cost. The architect study was another 5%. Hardware to fasten the panels to my theoretically solar ready roof was another 8% of the cost.
The rest was labor.
I am shocked you think it’s controversial that dramatically less labor is required to do something at construction time than as a retrofit.
This doesn’t require any economies of scale (although I think those will also appear with this bill). It just requires that coordination costs that are already being paid at construction time not increase dramatically when adding solar panels to the list of things planned for.
Shading and cooling dark roofs is, in fact, a good way to reduce the weathering of a roof. They don’t do much for metal roofs, and they are signally inappropriate on several types of shingle roofs, but torch down roofs, which are very common in California, are in fact likely to be improved by panels, not degraded.
The contention that talking about market failures implies someone trying to sell you something doesn’t seem like it lines up well with the economists I’m familiar with, but you know, at the end of the day, we’re going to have to see how much actual builders in California charge once this bill is in full effect.
I’m perfectly willing to admit I was wrong if, in fact, the TCO of solar panels ends up being enough to make this other than an extremely good bit of legislation.
Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
The requirements to build it on new homes makes old homes more valuable because they have one less requirement. It makes already built homes relatively more valuable to new ones. Its a drop in the bucket of NIMBYism tho.
This doesn't make sense. When you add an asset to one thing it doesn't mean that things without that asset go up in value. Are buyers like "oh you have a house with no solar pannels?! I want to pay more for that!"?
Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some states have no statewide building code at all --- Missouri is one example --- and some counties have not implemented one. You might also look into some of the more liberty-minded western states: Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, et cetera , where a lot of things like that are barely regulated.
Thankyou! In fact, Idaho and Montana were at the top of my list. I have been researching internet speeds in those states as well.
Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being the second biggest polluter of CO2 pretty clearly refutes that “developing countries” are the biggest polluters. The US has a lot of problems, but I’m not sure I’d call it developing.
Remember how you responded to someone who was talking about the biggest polluters, and you couldn't attack that statement, so you changed it to biggest polluters per capita ? That's where your logic failed.
Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
As DSC has been mandatory for a few years now in Australia, this means anyone buying a reasonably new 2nd hand car is going to get this important safety technology. This is a good thing. You'd be hard pushed to claim it has brought the prices of cars up. Likewise if all new houses must have solar, it's just going to become the norm and everyone will benefit. Bravo! I wish Australia had made double glazed windows mand…
That was (pretty much) my point. Although you can't claim there's not a cost, it's fairly minimal.
Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
Solar panels == sexy, shade trees == not sexy.
Also, in my area residents see trees as dangerous to their investment. New neighbors (second home buyers) cut down trees like they're invasive weeds, all because of the remote chance that one of them might, some day, hit the house.
Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
This doesn't make sense. When you add an asset to one thing it doesn't mean that things without that asset go up in value. Are buyers like "oh you have a house with no solar pannels?! I want to pay more for that!"?
"You have a house that doesnt require to build more solar panels? Great I did not want to pay and maintain that".