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California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

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Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this not just a thinly veiled attempt to increase new construction costs by NIMBYs?

Mistakes cause and effect. NIMBYs don't want to increase construction costs, though they want to maximise the value of existing property.

The requirements to build it on new homes makes old homes more valuable because they have one less requirement. It makes already built homes relatively more valuable to new ones.

Its a drop in the bucket of NIMBYism tho.

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#292

Giving the price of a house in the Bay Area $10K is a rounding error. I am all in favor of this. Scale will only drive the cost of the tech down. TX should follow this as should AZ, NM and every other state that is mostly "sunshine". I am schedule to get a Tesla Solar roof. Almost seems like I should wait another year or 2.

Everyone should be mandated to use facebook. This will drive the cost of data-mining down, including cost of elections, marketing and use of police force. This is required for all people born after 1990, older do not need to comply.

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#293
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm new to this HN thing so in an attempt to be "civil" I'll simply say I disagree with every single thing you said. The decision to implement California car emissions standards was not a heavy handed or half baked idea. The Rand corporation was called in to help figure out a solution other than catalytic converter and the ultimate decision was signed off by Ronald "not a fan of regulation" Reagan. Not only have ther…

> also there's this company called Tesla that has innovated and provided an alternative You can't really call Tesla an alternative to regular cars with a price point of $80K (plus options, plus taxes). I know there are people in Silicon Valley who have so much money that $80k is like pocket change to them, but even in SV that's a minority. In the meantime, I've bought a car for $2k several years ago and it still runs…

$50k, plus taxes.

You bought a car for $2k, but it was a used car. The fair comparison might be a Nissan Versa S, the cheapest new car in America at $12,780. Or maybe your car has more features than that, I don't know. That still puts the Model 3 at a multiple of the cost of that car, but hardly to an insane extent. Hell, in California you can, today, with rebates (yes, you have to pay some money up front) buy a new BMW i3 for about $22k. Of course, that's a particularly limited electric car, but then again, it also has features a $12,780 Nissan Versa does not, so you could argue the Versa is also limited.

We're not there yet, but we're getting there.

Actually a better argument from your point would be that the mandatory reverse cameras, airbags, safety cells, safety belts, ABS, etc, make new cars more expensive than they SHOULD be. In many countries you can get a brand new car for way less than $12,780. Of course, it's less safe and pollutes more than the new car you buy in the US, but there's a tradeoff in price.

Then again, that tradeoff trickles down to the used market, and pretty soon you have a $2k used car that HN buyers can buy, which is safer, cleaner, and more fuel efficient than an equivalent used car in a 2nd world country.

Or at least, that's how it works in theory.

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tax on carbon fuel would make more sense still. Polluters should pay for their pollution rather than foisting their externalities on others.

Solar is not pollution free.

And with emission tax this would be correctly reflected in price of solar as well.

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#295
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you formulate a building code for total net power draw, given how much it depends on occupant behavior?

You can't know ahead of time how an occupant will behave, but you can use existing heat load calculations to determine how many kWh will be used on average. Whatever math was done to size the HVAC system can also be used, in conjunction with the normal solar irradiance of the area, to size the solar install. Requirement could be as simple as enough PV to run half the A/C system plus another kW or so.

Would a house builder be allowed to size their solar panels assuming the home owner sets their AC to the 80°F some authorities recommend? Or should they size them for the 70°F I've seen some homes set to?

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#296
post #293
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> also there's this company called Tesla that has innovated and provided an alternative You can't really call Tesla an alternative to regular cars with a price point of $80K (plus options, plus taxes). I know there are people in Silicon Valley who have so much money that $80k is like pocket change to them, but even in SV that's a minority. In the meantime, I've bought a car for $2k several years ago and it still runs…

$50k, plus taxes. You bought a car for $2k, but it was a used car. The fair comparison might be a Nissan Versa S, the cheapest new car in America at $12,780. Or maybe your car has more features than that, I don't know. That still puts the Model 3 at a multiple of the cost of that car, but hardly to an insane extent. Hell, in California you can, today, with rebates (yes, you have to pay some money up front) buy a new…

As DSC has been mandatory for a few years now in Australia, this means anyone buying a reasonably new 2nd hand car is going to get this important safety technology.

This is a good thing. You'd be hard pushed to claim it has brought the prices of cars up.

Likewise if all new houses must have solar, it's just going to become the norm and everyone will benefit. Bravo!

I wish Australia had made double glazed windows mandatory (as well as solar panels). Alas, most people (well, at least politicians) have no idea what you're talking about, and prices are way up there.

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#297
post #261
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False. The US the biggest CO2 polluter per capita and the second biggest CO2 polluter overall. California contributes a significant chunk to that equation.

>US the biggest CO2 polluter per capita Your statement, while true, did not refute his, FYI.

Being the second biggest polluter of CO2 pretty clearly refutes that “developing countries” are the biggest polluters. The US has a lot of problems, but I’m not sure I’d call it developing.

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#298

So I guess putting up shade trees to reduce cooling costs isn't a thing any more? Is it net positive to use solar panels? Trees and houses just won't go together any more?

Solar panels == sexy, shade trees == not sexy.

Also, in my area residents see trees as dangerous to their investment. New neighbors (second home buyers) cut down trees like they're invasive weeds, all because of the remote chance that one of them might, some day, hit the house.

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#299
post #194
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's basically what we do now, but the trouble is cheap power sources with undesirable externalities win the energy market because consumers want more energy for less money.

Another trouble is the builder doesn't have to pay for the energy usage of the property, and there's no well-established way for the buyer to estimate consumption like there is with mpg.

Is there nothing similar to an EPC[1] in America?

[1] https://www.gov.uk/buy-sell-your-home/energy-performance-cer...

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#300
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$50k, plus taxes. You bought a car for $2k, but it was a used car. The fair comparison might be a Nissan Versa S, the cheapest new car in America at $12,780. Or maybe your car has more features than that, I don't know. That still puts the Model 3 at a multiple of the cost of that car, but hardly to an insane extent. Hell, in California you can, today, with rebates (yes, you have to pay some money up front) buy a new…

As DSC has been mandatory for a few years now in Australia, this means anyone buying a reasonably new 2nd hand car is going to get this important safety technology. This is a good thing. You'd be hard pushed to claim it has brought the prices of cars up. Likewise if all new houses must have solar, it's just going to become the norm and everyone will benefit. Bravo! I wish Australia had made double glazed windows mand…

>Likewise if all new houses must have solar, it's just going to become the norm and everyone will benefit. Bravo!

I live in a house built in 1920s. Ever seen someone driving a Model T?

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