Young Chinese are sick of working long hours • Hacker News Board

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#221

Post by s73v3r_ » Thu, May 10, 2018, 9:59 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #210

s73v3r_ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except by that standard, me pouring waste in the river, instead of paying to have it properly disposed is "ethically and morally correct."

You have a selfish interest in maintaining your society. This includes things like ensuring the less fortunate in your community are fed, clothed, and sheltered, and that you don't destroy the environment in which you live. But, as we often see, people act against their self-interest all the time.

Given the way people act, I don't know if I can agree with the idea that those things are a selfish interest.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#222

Post by haywirez » Thu, May 10, 2018, 9:59 PM UTC

CamelCaseName wrote: post #133

patrickg_zill wrote: post #128

NASA supposedly found that its programmers' code quality dropped after about 40-45 hours of work per week. Scandinavian and Slovenian immigrants to the USA, working as coal miners, felt that 8 hour days were important ( http://collections.mnhs.org/MNHistoryMagazine/articles/52/v5... pg 254) and negotiated to have that included in their employment contracts. So is it perhaps universal that 8 to 10 hours per day is wha…

I'm curious if the 40-45 hour work week is cultural. Maybe if society was set up for a 20 or 60 hour work week, we'd see the same type of productivity cliff.

I believe you shouldn't "work" more than 20-24 hours a week period, especially if you have your own projects or other systemic pursuits.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#223

Post by thaumasiotes » Thu, May 10, 2018, 10:01 PM UTC

kccqzy wrote: post #214

thaumasiotes wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A credential in "English" isn't the exemplar of self-indulgence that it would be in the US, where everybody already knows English and "English" as a school subject just means literature. Knowing English in China has real, immediate financial benefits. For any given job (programmer / secretary / waitress / anything), a role that involves having to communicate with English speakers is more prestigious and offers higher…

Every college student already knows English. It's a required subject in high schools. Anecdotally I do know of a Chinese student majoring in English in college telling me the best part of her college life is reading Dickens all day.

It is true that English is a required subject in Chinese high schools. This no more means that all Chinese college students can speak English than US high school foreign language requirements mean that American college students can all speak Spanish.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#224

Post by NeoBasilisk » Thu, May 10, 2018, 10:03 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #168

onlywei wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "millenials" as a classification is not used in China. Everyone gets classified instead as 80后，90后，00后， etc. (meaning born after 1980, born after 1990, born after 2000, etc.). Because of China's rapid economic growth, the difference in attitudes for someone born in the 80s versus someone born in the 90s is actually very pronounced.

I know nothing about China or how pronounced these differences are, but you see the same thing even in the "Millennial" generation everyone loves to talk about here in the US. You'll find a drastic difference between younger Millennials and older Millennials, to the point where Buzzfeed is writing articles comparing the two. No matter how much people want to pretend that "Millennial" is actually a real thing, it's no…

Compared to someone born in 1950 or 2020, you have a whole lot in common.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#225

Post by DmenshunlAnlsis » Thu, May 10, 2018, 10:03 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #223

kccqzy wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every college student already knows English. It's a required subject in high schools. Anecdotally I do know of a Chinese student majoring in English in college telling me the best part of her college life is reading Dickens all day.

It is true that English is a required subject in Chinese high schools. This no more means that all Chinese college students can speak English than US high school foreign language requirements mean that American college students can all speak Spanish.

You’re right about most of that, and if you look at Japan it’s a similar situation with a similar outcome. It is however also not true that Americans have to take Spanish, they could just as easily take Latin.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#226

Post by mjevans » Thu, May 10, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #56

As an engine tech for a diesel truck service center, I can seriously sympathize with where young chinese people are coming from. excessive overtime, even paid , can turn you into a miserable zombie pretty fast. somewhat quickly after my apprenticeship I was gifted quite a bit of nonsense overtime from the old timers. rotor turns, oil changes, timing, valve clearance, etc... were all heaped up on me until I was spendi…

I'd like to see three things to solve this kind of issue.

1) The elimination of unpaid overtime for anyone that isn't a 'corporate office able to hire employees at will'.

2) Required 'typical hours' in employment contracts; companies can't pay out less than this unless the employee agrees, and the employee cannot be forced to work MORE unless they agree.

3) All firings have to be for cause.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#227

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 10, 2018, 10:07 PM UTC

asdfologist wrote: post #18

eumenides1 wrote: post #11

“In my experience young people, especially the post-90s generation, are reluctant to work overtime – they are more self-centered,” says labour rights expert Li Jupeng, one of many who have observed some millennials challenging the 996 concept. self-centered is a funny word. It implies selfish, but is it really selfish if it's self-preservation?

Yeah, clearly the employers are not self-centered for demanding grueling work hours.

[deleted]

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#228

Post by primeblue » Thu, May 10, 2018, 10:18 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #49

eumenides1 wrote: post #11

“In my experience young people, especially the post-90s generation, are reluctant to work overtime – they are more self-centered,” says labour rights expert Li Jupeng, one of many who have observed some millennials challenging the 996 concept. self-centered is a funny word. It implies selfish, but is it really selfish if it's self-preservation?

Yet the executives and CEO who all benefit directly from unpaid overtime tool around in Maserati's and vacation on Greek islands, but surely that's not "self centered." Surely, capitalist culture has never, ever idolized self-centeredness and entitlement! China has the same problems the West has. We see labor as this fungible thing done by faceless automatons and its the job of management to extract as much labor as…

Nice work

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#229

Post by snambi » Thu, May 10, 2018, 10:29 PM UTC

Well, everyone is sick of working long hours. Why only Chinese?

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#230

Post by econochoice » Thu, May 10, 2018, 10:32 PM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #226

nimbius wrote: post #56

As an engine tech for a diesel truck service center, I can seriously sympathize with where young chinese people are coming from. excessive overtime, even paid , can turn you into a miserable zombie pretty fast. somewhat quickly after my apprenticeship I was gifted quite a bit of nonsense overtime from the old timers. rotor turns, oil changes, timing, valve clearance, etc... were all heaped up on me until I was spendi…

I'd like to see three things to solve this kind of issue. 1) The elimination of unpaid overtime for anyone that isn't a 'corporate office able to hire employees at will'. 2) Required 'typical hours' in employment contracts; companies can't pay out less than this unless the employee agrees, and the employee cannot be forced to work MORE unless they agree. 3) All firings have to be for cause.

> Required 'typical hours' in employment contracts; companies can't pay out less than this unless the employee agrees, and the employee cannot be forced to work MORE unless they agree.

On paper the typical hours will be in the contract, but in practice only those willing to agree to less pay/more hours will be hired/kept, making it less of an agreement and more of an obligation.