Young Chinese are sick of working long hours • Hacker News Board

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#171

Post by dionian » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:30 PM UTC

hindsightRegret wrote: post #90

yakuza00000 wrote: post #17

Poor Chinese Millennials. They are frustrated their country turned dictatorship. They are constantly monitored by the big brother, social credit score, public cameras that have facial recognition. Their words censored by wechat, and the great firewall. If they say something wrong, they will be watched and put on no travel list. There's no moving up the ladder; they're stuck trying to buy a $500k house with a meager $…

This is a very western view of China. I'm sure many Chinese millennials would disagree with you on their prospects within China.

But if they agree, they won't be dumb enough to announce it publicly (if they're even allowed on that forum by their government censors)

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#172

Post by googletazer » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

thisisit wrote: post #150

1_800_UNICORN wrote: post #33

Very interesting article, but I was disappointed that the article stated that the millenial only-children of China are "outspoken", "pampered", or "self-centered". I don't believe that any of those terms apply to people who are fighting against working 72 hours per week for low pay. This is a case of basic human rights. The words that come to mind to describe the folks who are fighting this fight are "proud", "resili…

I think each generation thinks the next one is the worse. I just hope these guys are not treated unfairly at their workplace. Couple of years ago, I had raised staying late in office as a big concern at my workplace. My manager told me a story about how his daughter will not eat certain food items. He said he would killed to have those food in his plate. But now, he has to strong arm his daughter into finishing her p…

I had the same type of imbecile as a manager. You are not alone Im afraid

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#173

Post by freeone3000 » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:34 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #135

s73v3r_ wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There is a reason that the US has laws about the minimum that people can get paid on a salary." There is no federal law in the US about that. California has such a law, but it requires being reported to be enforced, and as such, is not very often enforced.

There is in fact a Federal law that covers that. The Fair Labor Standards Act. https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=0bd0fa78-f456... Someone else here can speak to whether the exemption rate minimum was officially raised from the old $455 per week (the DOL was attempting to increase it). You legally must be paid at least the minimum wage unless you're exempt, and then the minimum weekly pay is in force. The…

(amount made) / (hours worked) >= (minimum wage) is all FLSA says. At tech worker salaries, that equation would hold if you worked 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. It doesn't make the fundamental problem of mandatory unpaid overtime go away.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#174

Post by swozey » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:39 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #56

As an engine tech for a diesel truck service center, I can seriously sympathize with where young chinese people are coming from. excessive overtime, even paid , can turn you into a miserable zombie pretty fast. somewhat quickly after my apprenticeship I was gifted quite a bit of nonsense overtime from the old timers. rotor turns, oil changes, timing, valve clearance, etc... were all heaped up on me until I was spendi…

Well if you ever decide to get into pre-revenue startups like a lot of us you're basically primed and ready to commit to the 6mo-3yr+ hell of 70 hour weeks. You won't get overtime, ever, but maybe you'll walk out with a tiny percent of RSUs that don't expire or become worthless before you forget about them.

Probably not.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#175

Post by arca_vorago » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:40 PM UTC

gehwartzen wrote: post #60

eumenides1 wrote: post #11

“In my experience young people, especially the post-90s generation, are reluctant to work overtime – they are more self-centered,” says labour rights expert Li Jupeng, one of many who have observed some millennials challenging the 996 concept. self-centered is a funny word. It implies selfish, but is it really selfish if it's self-preservation?

OVER-time. As in additional time over what was agreed in the original employee-employer relationship. There is nothing selfish here except maybe on the part of the companies that expect overtime out of their employees.

Even better, those who expect ot but have labelled an employee "key" to say they are ot-exempt...

I later found out it has a legal definition.

Key employee, in the ot law, means you have some profit sharing or stake in the company. Doesn't matter how "key" you are to the operations. FYI. I bet lots of people are getting shafted by this.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#176

Post by pdimitar » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

harryh wrote: post #85

ekianjo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a case of basic human rights. There's no such things as "human rights standards" for how much you should work per week. For most of human history people lived in abject misery and precariousness and in comparison 72 hours a week and most folks having all the comfort of modern city life is not as bad as it sounds like.

You're getting downvoted to hell, but FWIW I basically agree with you. This isn't really about rights but about economics. China used to be quite poor. So, on average, the Chinese people had to work pretty hard to raise their standard of living. But as China has gotten richer it's only natural that Chinese citizens will want to convert some of their hard earned wealth into more leisure time instead of more physical g…

Call me stupid but I cannot see how you are agreeing with your parent comment. It basically states "don't complain and get back to work", and you basically said it's normal for people to want their hard work to pay off and are thus pushing back against insane working schedules.

I don't see the connection, help me here.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#177

Post by akarma » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:49 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #108

adinobro wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't actually true. Roughly 80% of Chinese people are happy with the direction the country is going vs 40% in the USA. Most people don't care about censorship and the ones that do can get around it. From their point of view, it is no different to the NSA or the cameras in the UK (way more than China). Most Chinese people I know own a house (more like a shack) BUT it is out in the countryside. They want to move…

> Roughly 80% of Chinese people are happy with the direction the country is going vs 40% in the USA. An obviously fraudulent setup. There are very few things you can get 80% of people to agree on unless they feel compelled to agreement. The Chinese people no longer possess the ability to dissent. What little ability they had to do so, briefly, has been wiped out in the last five years under the new dictatorship. Your…

As an American with family in Russia, I think you're underestimating the conformity of opinion developed in countries that aren't America. We're unique in the amount of diverse cultures and perspectives that we have in large numbers, and we're constantly fighting with one-another, and we hold polar opposite views.

If you look at a country like Sweden, arguments amount to "Should we give more financial assistance to refugees, or to the elderly?". Their environmental regulations, their high welfare state, their criminal law... None of that is ever debated, because they're all in near-unanimous agreement.

Russia is similar but leaning conservative, and they view Putin as the person who can accomplish their national goals and uphold their conservative values. This is how most of the rest of the world exists, and children in those countries are very likely to continue that trend, given that it's all they're exposed to. 80% approval is totally believable, with that in mind.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#178

Post by kurtisc » Thu, May 10, 2018, 7:00 PM UTC

monsieurbanana wrote: post #59

Micrococonut wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you assume that what he is being paid is his current market value? It's entirely possible that he is being paid well under his market value, thus creating feelings of being underpaid.

He said "actually I think most devs in my country are underpaid".

Then you're discussing different markets. There are very significant barriers to moving between countries in the global market.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#179

Post by stcredzero » Thu, May 10, 2018, 7:03 PM UTC

supertiger wrote: post #149

stcredzero wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what my Chinese wife says about all that. People go to a monthly meeting. You hear a "sermon" and sing some patriotic songs. Then people go on with their lives. Not everyone who goes to church necessarily really believes. Not everyone necessarily believed even in the 1800s. That said, the social/theocratic hegemony of western Christianity wasn't all good, but it also wasn't all bad. The same probably goes for…

I grew up in China. What 'monthly meeting' (where 'you hear a "sermon" and sing some patriotic songs') is your wife talking about? That sounds bizarre

She's from Fujian. It was some kind of communist party community meeting.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#180

Post by thaumasiotes » Thu, May 10, 2018, 7:07 PM UTC

marsrover wrote: post #8

> Li said that initially he felt he couldn’t be too be picky: he had majored in English, not in one of the sought-after science or technology fields, and he had attended a low-ranked university. Many of his friends are unemployed. To me, this was the most interesting part of the article. It all sounds so familiar.

A credential in "English" isn't the exemplar of self-indulgence that it would be in the US, where everybody already knows English and "English" as a school subject just means literature.

Knowing English in China has real, immediate financial benefits. For any given job (programmer / secretary / waitress / anything), a role that involves having to communicate with English speakers is more prestigious and offers higher pay.