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Ubuntu 18.04: Unity is gone, Gnome is back, and Ubuntu has never been better

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211–220 of 297 posts

Re: Ubuntu 18.04: Unity is gone, Gnome is back, and Ubuntu has never been better

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To their credit, the Alt+RMB method for resizing windows is, along with Alt+LMB for moving windows, really amazing. I get annoyed when I have to go back to the old way on my Mac and Windows systems.

BetterTouchTool can do moving and resizing on macos, I've got them set to "FN+control" and "FN+control+option". Still haven't found anything good for Windows.

https://stefansundin.github.io/altdrag/

I've used this when I need to use Windows. Works well enough.

Re: Ubuntu 18.04: Unity is gone, Gnome is back, and Ubuntu has never been better

#212

I don't know if this is on topic but I switched to Ubuntu 18.04 recently and ran into this fairly annoying bug [1]. Installing curl installs libcurl4, which then uninstalls any applications you have that have a dependency on libcurl3 (which turns out to be Slack, Virtualbox, and some others). They really need to figure out how to allow libcurl4 and libcurl3 to live side-by-side if that's possible. Responses from ubun…

For Slack you can use the snap package, which doesn't have that issue.

Re: Ubuntu 18.04: Unity is gone, Gnome is back, and Ubuntu has never been better

#214
post #169

> Ubuntu has done a bit of tweaking so that you can actually put launchers, folders, and files on your desktop, which should be welcome news for many Ubuntu users. How long that will last is an open question, though, since GNOME just completely removed the code that made it possible for Canonical to enable this feature. I was curious about this and went spelunking for more information. https://community.ubuntu.com/t/…

> It seems wilfully destructive to remove something that is depended on by so many without making sure there's a replacement in place first. Could cut straight to the GNOME logo after that sentence. This is sort of what they do, yeah. And they do have their niche with that, which is big enterprise-y, centrally administered systems. If the user doesn't need to administer things themselves, then not exposing ways of ad…

> Could cut straight to the GNOME logo after that sentence. This is sort of what they do, yeah. And they do have their niche with that, which is big enterprise-y, centrally administered systems.

Does Gnome really have a niche there? I know of three places with large Linux deployments (as in hundreds of stations). None of them use Gnome -- its interaction model is so weird and foreign that getting people who aren't Linux/FOSS enthusiasts to use it difficult, painful and frustrating for everyone, users included.

All three are SuSE shops, actually. All three run KDE; one of them is more relaxed when it comes to software engineers so a couple of folks run Cinnamon, but that's about it.

The unsettling phenomenon is that most non-techie users don't need something super smart and intuitive, they want something like Windows, because that's what they've used so far to get their work done and they see no reason to learn something new.

If it's different, but approachable, they'll adjust (perhaps that's the value in customizable DEs like KDE; you can start with something that everyone's comfortable with, then they can tweak it to make it "better"). But if it's radically different and you need someone to explain them exactly why it's better and how they've been using computers wrong this whole time, that doesn't work in the real world.

Re: Ubuntu 18.04: Unity is gone, Gnome is back, and Ubuntu has never been better

#215
I think it _has_ been better.

Unity has brought a lot of innovations, and it would have been a lot better to keep it around.

Gnome devs started making extremely unpopular changes that are hard or impossible to revert. Unity at least put some pressure on them to consider their users a little bit. If only for this reason, Unity's existence was a good thing even if you didn't like or didnt' use Unity.

The situation to me is similar to Chrome's dominance, with Firefox being around to be used by few people, but having the very important role of not leaving everything to one company/group/project.

I've tried using Gnome 3 but there are just a few things that drive me (and lots of other people) crazy and can't be changed. Along with the project's "our way or the highway" attitude that made me switch to Xfce. If Ubuntu keeps being based on Gnome, Gnome might keep leaking some of their great ideas to Ubuntu, which is bad IMHO.

Xfce is a little too barebone but very usable, and with an extremely positive community. Devs are normal human beings that never look down on you (from my experience)--which can't be said of all open source projects.

Re: Ubuntu 18.04: Unity is gone, Gnome is back, and Ubuntu has never been better

#216
post #174
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems wilfully destructive to remove something that is depended on by so many without making sure there's a replacement in place first. Could cut straight to the GNOME logo after that sentence. This is sort of what they do, yeah. And they do have their niche with that, which is big enterprise-y, centrally administered systems. If the user doesn't need to administer things themselves, then not exposing ways of ad…

Devuan and Mint do a decent job shipping gnome 2 style environments by default. As far as I know, Gnome 2 is the last example of a Linux desktop environment that underwent professional usability testing (on regular people and power users) before shipping. Personally, these days, I prefer minimalist WM’s and CLI administration tools for stuff like WiFi, but all the newer heavy DE’s I’ve tried have obvious (to me) usab…

That's not true. Gnome 3 has seen usability studies, too. See e.g. https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/usability-gnome . I won't comment on the methodology -- just saying an attempt was made :-).

Re: Ubuntu 18.04: Unity is gone, Gnome is back, and Ubuntu has never been better

#217
post #174
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems wilfully destructive to remove something that is depended on by so many without making sure there's a replacement in place first. Could cut straight to the GNOME logo after that sentence. This is sort of what they do, yeah. And they do have their niche with that, which is big enterprise-y, centrally administered systems. If the user doesn't need to administer things themselves, then not exposing ways of ad…

Devuan and Mint do a decent job shipping gnome 2 style environments by default. As far as I know, Gnome 2 is the last example of a Linux desktop environment that underwent professional usability testing (on regular people and power users) before shipping. Personally, these days, I prefer minimalist WM’s and CLI administration tools for stuff like WiFi, but all the newer heavy DE’s I’ve tried have obvious (to me) usab…

> As far as I know, Gnome 2 is the last example of a Linux desktop environment that underwent professional usability testing (on regular people and power users) before shipping.

not sure what you mean by 'professional', but KDE is still there chugging along (and IIRC default by suse, which is basically the 'red hat' of europe..)

Re: Ubuntu 18.04: Unity is gone, Gnome is back, and Ubuntu has never been better

#218
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's the logic behind GNOME's move, but it doesn't address the user's concerns. First of all they are removing code of a popular feature before it has been replaced. Secondly, they are adding to code duplication by creating 2 totally separate code bases. In both OS X and Windows your desktop is just a folder with a background set to icon grid view. From right clicking to dragging, the UX is and should be ident…

Why should the desktop metaphor be constrained to “just a folder with a background set to grid view” though? Phones are already far ahead of most desktops by having widgets. Perhaps we’ll see innovation in the area of desktop UIs from Gnome when they get the next generation in place.

You are not the first one to think so. It's been tried, in various forms, since the late 1980s, by Microsoft, by third-party companies writing software for Windows, by Apple, by virtually every major open source desktop, with precisely the same results: desktop widgets are fun gimmicks that people fiddle with for a day or two, then forget about them. No one uses them.

Re: Ubuntu 18.04: Unity is gone, Gnome is back, and Ubuntu has never been better

#219
post #76
post #23

I've been skipping all the Unity drama by staying on Xubuntu which is really snappy and stays out of your way. Also, Gnome on this laptop (Dell Inspiron 15 7000) gave me (and several others users, as per forum post https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2358975 and some bug reports I found on the internet) a freeze or stutter every 10 or so seconds. So instead of having to start debugging shit from a fresh Linux i…

I have been using XFCE for 5 or 6 years, the _best_ thing about it are it's developers, they don't keep updating it. XFCE avoids the plague which affects rest of the software industry (me included) - dedicate design, marketing, and development teams who constantly have to add something to justify their jobs and bonuses. Look at the number of app updates on mobile phones, every freaking week there is a update availabl…

Huge fan of xfce here but couldn't get hidpi to work properly... Any hints?

Re: Ubuntu 18.04: Unity is gone, Gnome is back, and Ubuntu has never been better

#220
I love Gnome, but I have been in an almost constant fight with the taskbar in Gnome. Adding applications is not trivial (right-click doesn't work), removing them is also not trivial. Moving applications to the end of the list is easy (and happens often by accident), but moving them back to their original place is impossible (unless you want to play the game of moving applications to the end of the list until the list is in the correct order). I managed to have my taskbar disappear somehow at some point. I had to restore from backup to get it back. And I managed to change the background color to transparent, and I can't change it back. Also, at some point, I lost the workspaces widget. I hope that in the new version, things work a little smoother.
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