Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

citylab.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 248 posts

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#211

Post by evandijk70 »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #9

The bus system has to make pretty aggressive tradeoffs in order to be useful to commuters. You can't make it stop at every block in order to make it take less walking to get to the bus stop. Similarly, you can't have parallel lines a block apart. You have to limit the service area so that you can afford to run busses every 5-10 minutes. And you'll want to improve streets so that busses can run down the center and pic…

In my city, a new project was started that did precisely that. Dedicated bus lanes for almost the entire route, bus stops spaced about a mile a part, and 8 busses per hour.

It received massive criticism when it was constructed, as there already was a functioning network and the project was quite expensive compared to other bus lanes. It did become a massive succes, as its a viable alternative to the train for commuters due to the shorter travel time.

They are in the process of replacing the diesel busses with electric busses, first on the short routes and in 2020 on the longer routes.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#212

Post by whitepoplar »

Endama wrote: post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

Counterpoint: NYC subway. Big fucking deal they're some crazies. The subway is great.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#213

Post by evandijk70 »

Jommi wrote: post #156
kalleboo wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did this where I lived in Sweden too. The city wanted a tram line, but couldn't afford it. So they built a bus line. Bought massive triple bendy busses. Even used tram signals at the stoplights. Worked great.

Same in Finland(Helsinki) as well. Its called the joker line, huge busses that go every 8-10 mins. Now theyre actually trying to replace it with a fast tram.

Similar in the Netherlands, plans for a tram line, turned out to be to expensive, got changed to bus line with dedicated lanes. Even though it was built to make an eventual transition to a tram easy, this seems to work better in hindsight than dedicated trams.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#214

Post by lmm »

Reason077 wrote: post #103
munk-a wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Light rail is... well terrible. Build a real rail system separated from car traffic to avoid slowing down public transit to match the speed of private transit.

Proper light rail systems are fully separated from traffic. You're probably thinking of trams ("streetcars" in North America), which don't have a fully segregated right of way.

If it's fully separated from traffic why/how isn't it just regular ("heavy") rail?

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#215

Post by cafard »

Endama wrote: post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

That particular complaint has been around a long time: I heard it from a co-worker in about 1980, before a fair number of the HN readers were born.

These days, I commute by bus, unless I walk to or from work. That puts me on the bus between seven and ten times a week. The riders vary by hours, but I seldom see a rider I really don't want to sit beside.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#216

Post by evandijk70 »

maxharris wrote: post #10
craftyguy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Portland, OR, the light rail does 'train bunching', with the exact same consequences (inconsistent schedule, overcrowded trains followed closely by empty ones, etc).

Yup! The fix is to prioritize trains over all other street traffic, especially cars. (I suppose you could do this with buses, too, but people don't really see it that way because they have rubber wheels just like cars...)

Buses in my country have priority over all other street traffic. They never have a red light, it goes to green automatically when the bus arrives.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#217

Post by RadioAndrea »

ajmurmann wrote: post #146
Endama wrote: post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

I wonder if we couldn't have a "business class" option. When I took Muni in SF every day I'd have happily paid a little extra for some more comfort and less likelihood of a homeless person who smells like urine nearby. That money could even be used to subsidize the economy tickets. Maybe it might even work out that we could have a freemium model.

JR does this with many of their trains. There are green cars that you can get a special pass for at the station platform. I would only buy it for long trips by train, for general commuting I think it's a little unnecessary. That said JR is cheaper than the BART and MUNI but doesn't seem to have many undesirable carriage companions.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#218

Post by peterwwillis »

stevejb wrote: post #91
peterwwillis wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always rain gear... But I'm already working on it, actually. Rentable covered trikes and quadricycles with electric motors and storage. Slim enough to fit two to three units per road lane. Capable of multiple trips across town up steep hills before needing to be recharged, and remaining light enough to pedal (the default mode being lightly assisted power). Tow trailers and rear sidecars are an option, too.

It seems like this approach is a slow re-invention of the car.

I mean, you could also claim bicycles are obsolete and why not use scooters and motorcycles, but they have different use cases.

Cars are two-ton balls of complexity that last decades, operate in any environment and require mostly non-renewable energy. They've very costly, they take up a lot of room, they're expensive and complicated to maintain, and they're dangerous enough that you can't operate one without a license and we need laws and officers to regulate and police their use.

My vehicle is basically a four wheeled electric bicycle with a plastic cover. These already exist in many places with slightly different design. They've just never been designed specifically with dense urban transportation in mind.

Also, they're not intended to replace public transit. You can not get more efficient than a train, light rail or a bus. My vehicle is intended to provide the kind of personal transportation that a car is used for in cities while allowing for denser and more efficient transportation while also being safer and pollute less, to say nothing of parking, and cost of ownership.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#219

Post by abainbridge »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #205
abainbridge wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, where I'm from (Cambridge, UK), they also: Are more expensive than driving. Are regulated in such a way that prevents a competitive market. Are run by profit making companies that demand subsidies from government. Don't run at night. Are full at rush hour. Spend ages at the bus stop while everyone buys tickets, argues with the driver, asks which bus this is etc etc. A single ticket can't be used on buses from tw…

Come to Copenhagen and see how a unified public transport system is supposed to work. My tickets work for all buses and all trains equally. Don't blame public transport as a concept, blame private profiteering and corruption.

I've been to Copenhagen. I noticed you have a lot of cyclists! But no, I agree with your point. I think that is the main problem.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#220

Post by ajmurmann »

jon-wood wrote: post #165
ajmurmann wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if we couldn't have a "business class" option. When I took Muni in SF every day I'd have happily paid a little extra for some more comfort and less likelihood of a homeless person who smells like urine nearby. That money could even be used to subsidize the economy tickets. Maybe it might even work out that we could have a freemium model.

There’s little that irritates me more about my local trains than the fact every one of them has ~20% of carriages dedicated to first class at a huge markup. If they had capacity I’d be fine, but what happens is that you have people standing for a 2 hour journey while there’s empty seats that they’re not allowed to go and sit on.

I don't think my suggestion is appropriate everywhere. I do think it would work well in a place like San Francisco. I also think it would need to be physically secured so that you can only get in with a valid ticket otherwise you are going to keep pleasant, but poor people out and crazy people who she'll like urine would ignore the restrictions.
Post reply on HN