Live data from Hacker News

Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

citylab.com

201–210 of 248 posts

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#201
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Diesel buses are very energy efficient. Electrified rail is surprisingly inefficient." I would really like to see a citation, because I find that extremely hard to believe.

Really depends on ridership. There's also pollution other than just energy inefficiency; old diesel buses with low ridership put a lot of particulates and other pollution into the air, compared to the same number of passengers in the newest petrol (or cleaner diesel, or obviously electric) cars.

Sure, an older diesel bus with just 2-3 people on board is obviously less efficient than a car with 2-3 people on board.

But you also have to factor in that most buses run for a lot longer than the average car, sometimes decades and millions of kilometers. Most of the time they're not even "put to pasture" because they're worn out, but because newer buses are more efficient and have more creature comforts. So the older buses are brought in when for instance there is rail maintenance and you have to replace a train line with buses. In comes the old stock, still pulling its weight.

This also ties in to the environmental load of producing new cars/buses, you need a lot less raw material to make a bus that moves 60 people, compared to the cars needed to move 60 people.

That's why old stock is cycled out regularly, to improve efficiency and reduce pollution on the busiest lines. The the older buses get moved to more sparse routes, with less busy schedules and less stop-and-go.

Where I live, a surprisingly big problem is actually that too many people ride the buses during rush hour. Sometimes you just have to wait for the next bus to come and hopefully have some space for you. I'll admit that's really a luxury problem to have.

Public transport is vastly better for the environment and for congestion, unless nobody uses it. That takes investment, but politicians are way too quick to say "well no one's using it now, why should we invest?".

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#202
post #28

Buses are the public transport of last resort for very good reasons. They go through all the busiest areas to maximize passenger numbers, which is what makes them slow. Delays compound; since per-stop timetables are unpredictable due to traffic, buses normally just try to make the best time they can. Which means you wait for the bus, possibly for a long time. So a late bus becomes later, as it takes longer to board t…

You really should come visit Copenhagen sometime. Our buses work amazingly well :-)

The only times it gets a bit busy and bunched up is during rush hour, but I've rarely had to wait more than 10 minutes for the next bus, even in the worst cases.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#203

Buses fucking suck. Buses make you wait in the rain. Buses get stuck in traffic very easily. Buses create traffic and make it worse with their size. Buses idle diesel fumes as they stand in traffic. Buses are noisy and idle outside of homes. Bus stops in front of homes are filled with noisy people. Buses that permit requested stops go nowhere slower than ever. Buses are a half measure. Buses fucking suck.

>"Buses make you wait in the rain."

There's this thing called a bus shelter. They're actually really inexpensive to put up. Ask your city why they're not putting them up.

>"Buses get stuck in traffic very easily."

No more easily than a car. Bus-only lanes work amazingly well to mitigate the problems of traffic and congestion.

>"Buses create traffic and make it worse with their size."

Buses take up much less space per passenger than cars, so it's kind of ridiculous to make that argument.

>"Buses idle diesel fumes as they stand in traffic." >"Buses are noisy and idle outside of homes."

Natural gas buses and electric buses and being phased in, they're both quieter and cleaner than diesel buses. And bus lanes reduce idling time significantly.

>"Bus stops in front of homes are filled with noisy people."

Oh no, people. How horrible.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#204
post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

This is one reason why we should be building SkyTran systems instead of pushing more traditional public transit.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#205

Buses fucking suck. Buses make you wait in the rain. Buses get stuck in traffic very easily. Buses create traffic and make it worse with their size. Buses idle diesel fumes as they stand in traffic. Buses are noisy and idle outside of homes. Bus stops in front of homes are filled with noisy people. Buses that permit requested stops go nowhere slower than ever. Buses are a half measure. Buses fucking suck.

And, where I'm from (Cambridge, UK), they also: Are more expensive than driving. Are regulated in such a way that prevents a competitive market. Are run by profit making companies that demand subsidies from government. Don't run at night. Are full at rush hour. Spend ages at the bus stop while everyone buys tickets, argues with the driver, asks which bus this is etc etc. A single ticket can't be used on buses from tw…

Come to Copenhagen and see how a unified public transport system is supposed to work. My tickets work for all buses and all trains equally.

Don't blame public transport as a concept, blame private profiteering and corruption.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#206
post #68
post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

A sample of the population of people who take transit every day is different from a sample of the population in general. When walking down the street you might occasionally run across people who you're not comfortable walking near, but it's relatively rare. Increase the volume of those taking transit and you'll note that only the volume of people you're comfortable riding with will rise. The massive disincentives to…

This is true, and I use transit quite frequently, but even in Toronto you have to put up with some pretty shitty people.

I've been punched randomly for no reason[0]. I've had to put up with someone masturbating at the back a bus. People playing music right from their phones or just generally acting rude.

I'm still for transit, but aspects of it aren't great.

[0] I was just walking off the subway and this tall, muscular, mentally-ill-veteran-looking-guy hit me as hard as he could with no warning. I saw stars and nearly blacked out even though he hit me in the upper shoulder. He then marched onto the subway I just came out of like nothing happened.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#207
post #59

I keep hearing a lot of anti-car sentiment on HN, and a lot of claims that cities with good public transit are wonderful. Amsterdam is often cited as an example. So I decided to find out for myself. I went there. It convinced me more than ever that I will always prefer car/uber/lyft to public transit. Wait, hear me out. Yes, buses and bikes were wonderful. But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at whe…

> But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at where I want to go. Sometimes they stop close, sometimes a few blocks away. I think it's reasonable to expect a commuter to walk 4-5 blocks on either end of a ride unless they happen to be handicapped. And winter jackets, boots, and umbrellas are available for the conditions you've mentioned. No one is saying we should ban private cars from cities. Those wil…

>"No one is saying we should ban private cars from cities"

I am actually saying that, at least for the city centers.

Ban private cars, or charge a non-trivial congestion fee. Let commercial vehicles with a business purpose drive there, for deliveries and work, and let taxi services operate. But get rid of the space-hogging private cars.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#208

I keep hearing a lot of anti-car sentiment on HN, and a lot of claims that cities with good public transit are wonderful. Amsterdam is often cited as an example. So I decided to find out for myself. I went there. It convinced me more than ever that I will always prefer car/uber/lyft to public transit. Wait, hear me out. Yes, buses and bikes were wonderful. But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at whe…

I like my car. A lot. Stereo is great, seats are comfortable, goes where I want it to go when I want it to. Sure it's expensive, I have 220$ monthly parking bill (Pittsburgh, I know it's worse elsewhere), insurance, traffic, whatever--in a way I think my car is like a child's safety blanket. I just don't feel right without it handy.

I felt the same way. Then I sold my car and I cannot believe how much money I am saving, it's actually a little bit ridiculous.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#209
post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

Why would it be immoral of me to not want to be harassed and threatened on a regular basis during my commute? Because that was basically my experience of depending on busses for ~6 months.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#210
post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

Especially if you are a germ-a-phoebe like myself. My friend accidentally sat in a seat soaked in urine by the previous passenger, and had to go back home to change clothes of course. I decided ... nope. And then there is the occasional smoker, so if you have asthma ...

Going by the descriptions here, riding the bus in the US is worse than riding one in India.

In Germany, smoking on a bus is unthinkable, and the bus drivers (and other passengers) will throw you out pretty much immediately if you lit a cigarette.

I've also never heard of people peeing in the bus, let alone encountered that, even though I regularly use public transit at all times of day and night.

Post reply on HN