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Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

citylab.com

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Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#81

Post by dbasedweeb »

reaperducer wrote: post #72
Endama wrote: post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

Sometimes it's not even the passengers... it's the driver. Riding the 152 in Chicago one snowy night (about seven years ago), the bus suddenly stopped and the driver made everyone get off into the snow because it was the end of his shift. When we asked when the next bus was, he said there wouldn't be once because he was the last bus of the night. I ended up walking about a mile to the nearest Blue Line subway station…

Refuse to leave the bus, point out that you’re willing to call police and wait for them. Casually mention that the driver will get home faster by finishing their route than forcing you to waste a lot of his time in the process of getting him fired.

Tl;Dr don’t put up with that shit. Ever.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#82

Post by stevejb »

One thing that seems to have not been addressed here is noise. I was just on a quick walk in downtown Sydney, Australia. It was so loud on the sidewalks, with buses seeming to contribute a huge portion of noise. Additionally, the diesel exhaust can be stifling particularly in these urban corridor situations where the buildings trap the fumes. I would much rather be walking next to 50 Prius/Camry taxi cabs and a few private vehicles than 10 loud buses. I agree with the idea of bus utilization in cities but there are certainly some downsides.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#83

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

dbasedweeb wrote: post #51
jstanley wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your bike doesn't stop at your door or doesn't go where you want to go, you're using it wrong. I bought an electric bicycle recently after years of being a staunch car supporter. I am now convinced that the electric bicycle is the perfect mode of personal transport for non-rural areas. It takes up hardly any room, it doesn't make much noise, it doesn't go fast enough to be a danger to anyone, it doesn't get stuck…

It's personal transport of the future. Everyone should get one. In warm and dry parts of the world with good roads. You try biking in Toronto in the winter! Some people also understand that roads are dangerous, and being hit by a car when you’re on a bike is very bad news.

> In warm and dry parts of the world with good roads.

All you need are good roads. Bicycling in the winter in Helsinki or – even further north – Oulu is completely mainstream. People know how to dress for the outdoors, and as long as the bike lanes are cleared of snow, cycling is not viewed as the major inconvenience that people in warmer countries expect it to be.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#84

Post by fratlas »

stevejb wrote: post #82

One thing that seems to have not been addressed here is noise. I was just on a quick walk in downtown Sydney, Australia. It was so loud on the sidewalks, with buses seeming to contribute a huge portion of noise. Additionally, the diesel exhaust can be stifling particularly in these urban corridor situations where the buildings trap the fumes. I would much rather be walking next to 50 Prius/Camry taxi cabs and a few p…

Were you in the CBD? I'd say the downside of the noise is worth it. The amount of Sydneysiders driving in to work solo is staggering.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#85

Post by Reason077 »

Endama wrote: post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

Here in London, bus ridership has also been in decline for a few years now. But it's pretty clear the reasons are: 1) the rise of Uber and friends, 2) improvements to the Tube and Rail networks (new trains, better service frequency, longer operating hours, etc), and 3) the increase in popularity of cycling.

Yes, sometimes there are weird people on the bus who might make you feel uncomfortable. Yes, sometimes the bus isn't clean and it's full of litter. Sometimes someone has decided to leave their stinky orange peel, banana skin, or chicken bones on the seat. Yes, the bus is powered by a stinky noisy diesel engine with fumes that make you feel nauseous.

But none of this is anything new - it's always been that way! It's just that people have more alternatives now.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#86

Post by stevejb »

et-al wrote: post #59
dmitrygr wrote: post #22

I keep hearing a lot of anti-car sentiment on HN, and a lot of claims that cities with good public transit are wonderful. Amsterdam is often cited as an example. So I decided to find out for myself. I went there. It convinced me more than ever that I will always prefer car/uber/lyft to public transit. Wait, hear me out. Yes, buses and bikes were wonderful. But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at whe…

> But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at where I want to go. Sometimes they stop close, sometimes a few blocks away. I think it's reasonable to expect a commuter to walk 4-5 blocks on either end of a ride unless they happen to be handicapped. And winter jackets, boots, and umbrellas are available for the conditions you've mentioned. No one is saying we should ban private cars from cities. Those wil…

From this same thread:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17034959

> God I would love it Manhattan banned Uber and all non-commercial traffic (exile all civilian traffic to the highways and parking garages alongside them) and upped the number of buses. Clean new yellow cabs too and tougher requirements to drive them (raise the fares, I don't care).

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#87

Post by dbasedweeb »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #83
dbasedweeb wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's personal transport of the future. Everyone should get one. In warm and dry parts of the world with good roads. You try biking in Toronto in the winter! Some people also understand that roads are dangerous, and being hit by a car when you’re on a bike is very bad news.

> In warm and dry parts of the world with good roads. All you need are good roads. Bicycling in the winter in Helsinki or – even further north – Oulu is completely mainstream. People know how to dress for the outdoors, and as long as the bike lanes are cleared of snow, cycling is not viewed as the major inconvenience that people in warmer countries expect it to be.

“All you need are good roads.” That’s a Big expensive undertaking. In Canada (which is ever so slightly bigger than Finland) the roads range from excellent to abysmal. In the US the roads often have potholes and little accommodation for cycles, and the U.K. has some of the worst roads I’ve seen outside of a developing nation. Finland is also a small country with a population which all lives in the same climate. Countries like the US and Canada are huge, and far more populous, with population densities varying wildly. In addition, the climate ranges from lovely to arctic.

Needless to say, this creates a host of issues you won’t find in Helsinki, where 1.2m of Finland’s 5m inhabitants live. A bunch of very similar people living in the equivalent of one American state or small Canadian province, speaking the same language and sharing the same culture and weather can make roads and cycling a priority. Good luck scaling that.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#88

Post by stevejb »

tathougies wrote: post #73
jessaustin wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing those buses to those that serve other areas seems a little bit like admiring charter schools that only accept rich smart kids...

Why? Golden gate transit buses are public buses paid for by tax payer dollars and fares, like every other bus system. They are not private systems. What an odd time we live in, when being proud of our public civil infrastructure gets one labeled an elitist. Should I be ashamed of our schools as well?

I think it is reasonable to point this out. When I lived in Seattle, I took the express buses between Seattle and Redmond on a daily basis. They sound like the ones that you describe. However, the buses within the city of the Seattle were a completely different situation. Messy, smelly, and often carrying people who could be upsetting or at least make you feel uncomfortable. Taking a bus originating from the second-wealthiest county in the United States should not be regarded as a typical experience.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#89

Post by gascan »

stevejb wrote: post #82

One thing that seems to have not been addressed here is noise. I was just on a quick walk in downtown Sydney, Australia. It was so loud on the sidewalks, with buses seeming to contribute a huge portion of noise. Additionally, the diesel exhaust can be stifling particularly in these urban corridor situations where the buildings trap the fumes. I would much rather be walking next to 50 Prius/Camry taxi cabs and a few p…

Electric buses and CNG buses are already here, and they are quieter. It might take some time for Sydney to retire old diesel buses, but they won't be that loud & fumey forever.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#90

Post by craftyguy »

blang wrote: post #14
craftyguy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Portland, OR, the light rail does 'train bunching', with the exact same consequences (inconsistent schedule, overcrowded trains followed closely by empty ones, etc).

Is this because the train is not grade separated?

In many places it is, but downtown it is right there on the street sharing lanes with cars. I've been on the light rail when it was hit by a car, and when it hit a car (both low-speed, but still delayed things by quite a long time)
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