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Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

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61–70 of 248 posts

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#61
post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

No one's going to publicly agree with you, but they all do.

Woah, is this a reverse no true Scotsman? What fallacy is this?

Just to instantly dismember your argument, which hinges on the word "they all," I'll put my hand up as a "I'd ride next to homeless every day if it saves me transit money."

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#62
post #59

I keep hearing a lot of anti-car sentiment on HN, and a lot of claims that cities with good public transit are wonderful. Amsterdam is often cited as an example. So I decided to find out for myself. I went there. It convinced me more than ever that I will always prefer car/uber/lyft to public transit. Wait, hear me out. Yes, buses and bikes were wonderful. But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at whe…

> But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at where I want to go. Sometimes they stop close, sometimes a few blocks away. I think it's reasonable to expect a commuter to walk 4-5 blocks on either end of a ride unless they happen to be handicapped. And winter jackets, boots, and umbrellas are available for the conditions you've mentioned. No one is saying we should ban private cars from cities. Those wil…

  > No one is saying we should ban private cars from cities. 
Many people on HN do (search for it). That's the point i was trying to counter with the original comment.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#63
post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

In a properly functioning system the ratio should be higher. It should cost significantly more for a private transport option.

Take Tokyo, which has grrat public transit. 2 stops om a train may cost $2-$3 but the same rpute by taxi will cost you $30-$40.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#64

> such as L.A. and Denver, are watching transit ridership decline across the board, in part because investment in buses has trailed so far behind the commitment to trains That's not completely true for LA (and for the record, train ridership in LA is on decline as well, while the population is growing). Here's the actual reason http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-metro-homeless-2018... "People looking for warm,…

Seattle is in a similar situation. Ridership is growing still, but mostly due to driving and parking being very expensive and inconvenient. We also have a program where major employers (including Amazon) will provide cards for unlimited transit use, but not re-imburse or provide for the full cost of parking.

Even so, it's very common for people to get on the bus without paying and make everyone else uncomfortable. I've seen harassers, people vaping and shooting up, obviously unstable people yelling and making a scene. That's not to say anything of the people who just bring an awful odor or take up a whole row with absolute junk. I've never seen feces or urine, but definitely seen vomit. There's no enforcement against this kind of thing most of the time, and riders are too afraid to speak up on their own.

If I'm given the choice between a 30 minute walk and a 10 minute bus ride, I'll almost always walk if it's not just pouring rain. Luckily Seattle sidewalks and pedestrian friendliness in general is pretty great.

It's a drastically different situation from my hometown, Charlotte NC, where the buses don't get much use and it really is due to service stinking and general perception of the bus being for poor people only. Also cars are fairly cheap and ubiquitous. I would frequently be the only white person on a crowded bus, but even though I sometimes got weird looks, I was never harassed or made to feel in danger like I've experienced in Seattle. It was mostly just working class folks or people and some people with DUIs going to work, city services, or community college (which was my reason for taking it, I just hated driving though). An improvement in service and getting some nicer buses probably would have helped, but now that light rail is a thing (just barely though), I do think they are putting all their resources there instead.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#65
post #41

Buses have two main problems as I see it. Number one is an image problem - they aren't sexy. Here in the States, we are obsessed with the 'European' way of life. Most major European cities have some form of streetcar system or underground metro, if not both. To us, those are sexy. Nevermind that those cities have buses, too. The bus _could_ be more sexy. BRT with dedicated lanes, priority signaling, clean & modern in…

I recently moved to Marin county and use the bus to commute to SF. The Golden Gate Transit buses are pretty amazing. They come on time, the seats are clean and comfortable, and they have (usually fast) wifi. The clientele is clearly professionals commuting to the city in the morning and evening, and it works. Honestly, if more bus systems simply got wifi and nice seats, that would be a huge step forward. I've taken t…

Comparing those buses to those that serve other areas seems a little bit like admiring charter schools that only accept rich smart kids...

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#66
post #7

Me: I would ride the bus if it was available more than once every 30 minutes. At this point it's faster for me to Uber. City councilmember: why should we allocate even more funds to the busses? Nobody's riding them!

God I would love it Manhattan banned Uber and all non-commercial traffic (exile all civilian traffic to the highways and parking garages alongside them) and upped the number of buses. Clean new yellow cabs too and tougher requirements to drive them (raise the fares, I don't care).

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#67
post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

Time and cost affect this calculus though. BART has its fair share of "undesirables" but it's the fastest way to get from downtown SF to Oakland during rush hour, so people tolerate it more than they would otherwise.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#68
post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

A sample of the population of people who take transit every day is different from a sample of the population in general. When walking down the street you might occasionally run across people who you're not comfortable walking near, but it's relatively rare. Increase the volume of those taking transit and you'll note that only the volume of people you're comfortable riding with will rise.

The massive disincentives to take public transit has slowly built up this self-fulfilling prophecy.

(As a brief supporting empirical note, up here in vancouver I rarely run across such folks when commuting in from New West, while I often run across them in downtown buses. There is a much higher volume moving people in from new west than moving local traffic in downtown)

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#69
post #11

The bus system has to make pretty aggressive tradeoffs in order to be useful to commuters. You can't make it stop at every block in order to make it take less walking to get to the bus stop. Similarly, you can't have parallel lines a block apart. You have to limit the service area so that you can afford to run busses every 5-10 minutes. And you'll want to improve streets so that busses can run down the center and pic…

That's exactly the problem, buses can never match that. They can't have too short a route or too fast an interval, it doesn't work when you have huge variance due to personal cars, lights etc. impeding them.

>They can't have too short a route or too fast an interval, it doesn't work when you have huge variance due to personal cars, lights etc. impeding them.

Lots of cities have found ways around this. Express buses with dedicated rights-of-way in Pittsburgh, for example. Or Chicago's 146 Outer Drive Express and J14 Jeffrey Jump routes are also good examples.

Too often the biggest problem with buses getting around isn't the buses. It's cars driving, turning, or parking illegally in bus lanes.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#70
post #3

I love the bus because it runs express from my Chicago neighborhood directly into the loop. I get on, play with my phone, and get off 25 minutes later. I don't have to fight traffic driving myself and I can multi-task if I choose. The problem comes when trying to take the bus to any other part of the city. It's slow, stops at every block, and is unpredictable when it arrives. It's a mode of transport that supports ev…

Also, express buses. Split the city up into zones, have local bus routes within the zones (maybe with some overlap) and have one or a few stops in the zone be feeder stations that let you transfer to inter-zone buses that zip around post-haste. Set it up sensibly and you'll have a quick transit for everyone. Take a hint from zoning (one bus zone covering an area with a lot of office parks) and you'll be able to scale bus volume more accurately during different times, i.e. less buses there on weekends and after seven or eight.
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