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A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

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Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#291

Post by Kluny »

ajkjk wrote: post #23

Most of the theories I've seen about the women-in-tech gap don't resonate with my experience because there was a very obvious 'women-in-tech' gap in about... 5th grade? in my (typical, I think) American elementary school. It was nerdy boys, almost entirely (I remember one exception), who wanted to stay after school playing games on the iMacs in our classroom, and I am pretty sure that it would only be the boys in my…

> It was nerdy boys, almost entirely (I remember one exception), who wanted to stay after school playing games on the iMacs in our classroom

I wanted to as well. I used to sort of hover behind the boys playing Oregon Trail or making stuff in Hypercard or whatever, trying to participate. They ignored me like I wasn't even there. Gave up after a while.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#292

Post by rexaliquid »

mikeash wrote: post #151
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #58

> [If you’re a dude and you’re reading this article] Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy. Include her, ask her for advice, introduce her, learn about her work and her life in the same way you would with any male friend or coworker. If you’re an investor, professor, journalist, or manager, take it on yourself to sponsor a young woman’s career. While I totally agree with this advice, I think th…

Women are people. Talk to them like people. If you’re so bad at socializing that you might accidentally harass someone, fix that! Don’t just retreat from the world because you can’t handle a basic skill. Edit: Interesting downvotes. Is it the suggestion that women are people, or the suggestion for self-improvement if you’re incapable of treating them accordingly?

Yes. Do some research and improve your skills. There are panels and podcasts, articles and threads where women explain the dos and don'ts in the workplace.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#293

Post by stcredzero »

ploxiln wrote: post #200
tptacek wrote: post #50

Are the rest of the STEM career paths seen as more social than CS? Is mathematics more social than CS? Because CS is almost (not quite: physics is almost as bad) unique among STEM specializations for its gender disparity. I talk regularly to academic math people (because cryptography) and the sense I have is that if anything, CS is far more social than the work they do --- to get anything significant done in technolo…

I agree, Math and Physics are in many ways similar to CS, and yet have more women. And I can think of a pretty good reason to explain it: Math and Physics are more classically respected and authoritarian. CS is the wild-west by comparison. In Math and Physics in high school and college, you can just study what you're supposed to study, do the problems you're supposed to do. You can mostly do that in CS too, of course…

I agree, Math and Physics are in many ways similar to CS, and yet have more women.

I think it might be useful to ask: In what ways are Math and Physics are different from the programming field? I think the requirement to work together on larger projects is different. What is the gender distribution of physicists working at CERN?

My experience in school is that the smartest girls studied a lot more, and the smartest guys messed around a lot more.

Sounds about right.

CS is programming and programming is a lot of messing around.

Is it? Back in the day, there were CS professors who proudly declared they didn't like programming.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#294

Post by pvg »

wieghant wrote: post #206
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #58

> [If you’re a dude and you’re reading this article] Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy. Include her, ask her for advice, introduce her, learn about her work and her life in the same way you would with any male friend or coworker. If you’re an investor, professor, journalist, or manager, take it on yourself to sponsor a young woman’s career. While I totally agree with this advice, I think th…

We recently got a new female analyst. We invite her for lunch and sometimes have small talk. Thing is, there's literally zero chemistry. We can't include here in our dumb Skype chat because its usually filled with incredibly dumb offensive memes - so we just try to keep our laughs down. We tried invite her to video game night and even organized board games just because she wasn't into video games that much. But again…

You should probably re-examine whether any of these things are necessary for a fruitful professional relationship and to what extent your merger of your social and professional life excludes current and potential coworkers who are not some close variant of you and your pals.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#295

Post by modbait »

JPKab wrote: post #26
modbait wrote: post #2

> Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy. As an unattractive computer nerd, I've been regularly reminded my entire life that I am creepy. Skipping.

I have a talented, and wonderful, female dev on my team. One thing though:. She has described to me some of the male coders as being "creepers". When I asked for specifics, she couldn't provide them. She simply stated it was a "feeling". The one commonality I found with the creepers is that they are pretty clearly below average in looks. The question is whether this is a correlation or a casual factor. But definitely…

Wow, that's seriously unprofessional (of her).

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#296

Post by daenz »

yosito wrote: post #257
daenz wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to look at the comments is to look at the audience. HackerNews readers are typically hard problem solvers. They discuss theories and solutions, and can't be afraid of avoiding potential causes because they make people uncomfortable. So while your post has empathy, it doesn't really push the solution-finding process forward in the way that other, more active (vs passive), posts do.

You can't be sure you're offering a solution to the right problem if you haven't taken the time to empathize with what the problem is first.

And passive empathy without action is pointless. How much data needs to be gathered before an action becomes clear? Should we all not take any action until then?

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#297

Post by wieghant »

timavr wrote: post #286
wieghant wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We recently got a new female analyst. We invite her for lunch and sometimes have small talk. Thing is, there's literally zero chemistry. We can't include here in our dumb Skype chat because its usually filled with incredibly dumb offensive memes - so we just try to keep our laughs down. We tried invite her to video game night and even organized board games just because she wasn't into video games that much. But again…

I just don't buy into social stuff. People at work to work. As long as she is treated with respect and provided the same opportunities as everyone else it should be cool. People have different interests and it is totally fine. At our place some people are into Fortnite, some people into crypto, some people into playing the piano. So when Fortnite people stay after hours to put some games in, it doesn't mean I have to…

That's not really what I was getting at. Most of the guys are just like you described. We usually can't even settle on a video game to play. However, even with the one thing in common with the whole group (slight interest in board games) we just didn't hit off. And it's not like a singular attempt or case either. It's like there is a cultural divide. Now that's not the case with everyone, my example is anecdotal. I have female friends that dig board games and some video games and there's no divide there but just in the workplace, that is not the case. From my current experience and environment it seems very unlikely I'll ever meet someone like that though.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#298

Post by titanix2 »

tptacek wrote: post #256
titanix2 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This advice assume that men want to befriend women. It is understandable from a women point of view, but from a man perspective the friendzone is a big no-no. Most men would date a woman or not establish contact at all.

This is an off-the-charts creepy thing to say.

Evolution of creepiness:

2018: saying that men are primarily interested in women for sex

2019: saying oceans are made of water

Can't wait for 2020 when saying Hello to an unknown person will so creepy it would be called a micro-agression. Oh wait...! https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4txyh4

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#299

Post by ajkjk »

Kluny wrote: post #291
ajkjk wrote: post #23

Most of the theories I've seen about the women-in-tech gap don't resonate with my experience because there was a very obvious 'women-in-tech' gap in about... 5th grade? in my (typical, I think) American elementary school. It was nerdy boys, almost entirely (I remember one exception), who wanted to stay after school playing games on the iMacs in our classroom, and I am pretty sure that it would only be the boys in my…

> It was nerdy boys, almost entirely (I remember one exception), who wanted to stay after school playing games on the iMacs in our classroom I wanted to as well. I used to sort of hover behind the boys playing Oregon Trail or making stuff in Hypercard or whatever, trying to participate. They ignored me like I wasn't even there. Gave up after a while.

It wouldn't surprise me that both angles are true: that the divide exists by ~elementary school, but still for the same reasons commonly cited (social pressures / etc).

Sorry that happened to you, though. In my school we had 1 girl in our nerd group. I like to think we weren't exclusive; there just weren't many people interested. But I was 10 so I dunno.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#300

Post by AnimalMuppet »

walshemj wrote: post #246
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The English cannon should be shot. :-) The word you're looking for is "canon".

And Dyslexia sucks :-)

And now I feel like a heel for picking on your spelling. :-<
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