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The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

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Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#191

Post by Qasaur »

TimmyMustGo wrote: post #175
simias wrote: post #17

>the global currency of the future, that they need to buy some, and that he’s the man to safeguard it. Looks like in the future people hoard currency instead of spending and investing it then. That ought to be interesting. It also demonstrates the costs associated with non-reversible transactions, these vaults aren't storing gold ingots or priceless artifacts, just private keys. Banks around the world don't need to w…

So if we let a bank manage bitcoin, perhaps the bank could issue paper receipts that are backed by said bitcoin, and those pieces of paper could circulate instead of using the blockchain. What I don't understand is if fiat currencies are so bad, why do people express the value of bitcoin in a fiat currency (like USD)? They are just like the goldbugs, hoping and praying that the world will collapse back into the dark…

There is a very important difference between fiat currencies backed by nothing and fiduciary media that is backed by a commodity like gold. You can't walk into the Federal Reserve with a thousand dollars and demand them to be converted into physical gold - that right was abolished in the 1930s.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#192

Post by simias »

blueprint wrote: post #105
api wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin seems to have already undergone a deflationary collapse. Its original goal of Internet money has been abandoned in favor of the concocted idea that it is a "store of value." Unfortunately it's a poor store of value since it requires a constant stream of electricity to maintain. Gold, land, and other traditional idle stores of value just sit there and are free to maintain with the exception of the cost of phys…

> Unfortunately it's a poor store of value since it requires a constant stream of electricity to maintain. "Earth is a poor store of life because it requires a constant stream of light to maintain." Hm no, that doesn't work...

It doesn't work because we need life to be alive. We don't really need bitcoin for anything though. But you're right that in the very long term remaining alive on earth, or even in the universe at large is going to be a huge issue. Wasting energy mining cryptocurrencies isn't going to help. I wonder who's going to be the first person building a dyson sphere to power a BTC miner.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#193

Post by charlesdm »

wpietri wrote: post #77
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because - and everyone but the uninformed or idealists know this - it's an investment product. It's simply not suitable as a currency, because one, inflation / instability, and two, it can only do what, a dozen transactions a second, if that? That's not nearly enough to become a viable currency.

I agree it's not an effective currency. But I disagree that it's an investment. I think the correct technical term is speculation. Investment is where you find something producing value in the real world and then buy and hold a piece of that. You're expecting a long stream of returns from the value being produced. Speculation is where you are making a bet on price movements in a way where economic productivity is irr…

By that reasoning, investing in gold is also speculation. Because it only has minimal industrial uses and most of its value comes from the fact that people say it has value.

And a piece of art is not a productive asset either. Yet, it can and will have value. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that.

I'm happy to invest in things that I believe are likely to go up in value, whether those are companies, mineral rights, art, watches, Bitcoin, or water deposits.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#194

Post by mkirklions »

beojan wrote: post #168
mkirklions wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the crazy part? I bought BTC at 200, 400, 800, 1200, 3000, 11,000, and 7,000. I like BTC wayyy better than USD. If I need to spend 2$ at taco bell, I'll just use my bitcoin.

And kicked yourself for that $180 Taco Bell when it peaked at $18,000, right?

No, I do DCA.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dollarcostaveraging.asp

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#195

Post by realusername »

gwbas1c wrote: post #113
mkirklions wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speak for yourself. I use bitcoin all the time for payments. Peer to peer using coinbase(email) for free and instant to friends. Shift card for free and instant at merchants. Bitcoin is beyond blockchain, companies have built products to trade BTC instantly, free, using the infrastructure already existing. The transaction time 'problem' doesnt really exist if you are into crypto, you know how to use it. And I dont tr…

Bitcoin is a fiat currency. It's backed by nothing. Encryption keys, and bits on a disk, have absolutely no value whatsoever.

Traditional currency isn't backed by anything but its usage as well.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#196

Post by jel9392mdke »

coldtea wrote: post #180
jel9392mdke wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uninformed As if you have some secret wisdom of divine nature You’re using words and language that have been repeated to you over and over by those you perceive to have some authority Let’s not wrap this in mysticism to continue satisfying your headspace

> As if you have some secret wisdom of divine nature Doesn't take that to be informed. Studying a subject for example will do. In fact in this case, to reach the same conclusions, all it needs is common logic. > You’re using words and language that have been repeated to you over and over by those you perceive to have some authority Or he made up his own mind -- ever thought of that possibility?

Prove that’s possible since we have yet to even define what consciousness is.

How can we know we made up our minds when we don’t know where such a capacity to do so starts and ends?

If I study reading tea leaves I am simple informed in nonsense

Studying economics is studying bartering habits of the people that control the bartering system

It’s not hidden knowledge. It’s watching culture norms and encoding those in daily behavior

It’s more religion than science

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#197

Post by hisabness »

blueprint wrote: post #98
acdha wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investments need to have intrinsic value. Under the new spin that bitcoin isn’t intended to be a currency, it makes little sense as an investment because there’s no value in any particular set of random numbers. If nobody is using it except for speculation, where’s the incentive to pay to keep that network running?

I'm not disagreeing with you on the distinction between an investment and a speculative position, but know that the value is in the confirmations of old transactions piled up which make it extremely difficult to retroactively mutate the ledger. Lots of people don't understand that well yet.

i think the value is also the ability to transfer value relatively quickly without having to sit at a bank for 30 minutes to do so.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#198

Post by nicky0 »

dmoy wrote: post #155
mkirklions wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With 1000 USD? Sure, thats petty money if I lost it. I dont keep most of my bitcoin in coinbase.

What's the backup for various failure cases? House fire? I'd guess off-site backups. House fire that kills you? Do you stick recovery instructions to your backup in a will, or how do you leave money to your heirs? (Or just you don't?)

Paper recovery seed in bank deposit box.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#199

Post by jimmaswell »

mkirklions wrote: post #149
spookthesunset wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin is beyond blockchain, companies have built products to trade BTC instantly, free, using the infrastructure already existing If bitcoin is "beyond blockchain", than what is it? Just a table of transactions in a Real Database™? If yes, whats the point? You've just layered a very bank-sounding, very-centralized construct on top of your space-age "trustless" decentralized blockchain. How is it at all revolution…

>I feel like bitcoin people live in some kind of alternate reality that I simply don't understand. I can tell. You seem to think Bitcoin is another inflationary currency. The excitement is that, Donald Trump doesnt have control over Bitcoin. China doesnt have control over bitcoin. No government does. People with computers have control over it. There are 21,000,000 Bitcoin ever ever ever. No amount of awful government…

>The excitement is that, Donald Trump doesnt have control over Bitcoin. China doesnt have control over bitcoin. No government does. People with computers have control over it. There are 21,000,000 Bitcoin ever ever ever. No amount of awful government can change that.

It's already banned in some countries, and many tax it. Evading those laws comes with risks, so many or most people comply. Exchanges end up being forced to hand some data over to the IRS/others. Overall, governments seem to have control over it nearly the same as they have control over the trade of anything else.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#200

Post by simias »

keymone wrote: post #185
simias wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with you that the concentration of wealth in the hands of a tiny portion of the population is a huge problem today, but don't deflationary cryptocurrencies make it objectively worse? At least if the current "1%" hoard dollars or euros in their mattress they slowly lose their wealth thanks to inflation. After a generation or two they'll have lost a significant share of their treasure. Therefore they…

Bitcoin is inflationary at least nominally, until 2140.

That's definitely not what the overwhelming majority of people buying bitcoin today are counting on though. Like, at all. Otherwise "HODL" wouldn't be the meme it is. It doesn't make sense to hold inflationary currency.
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