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The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

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Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#131

Post by mkirklions »

pwinnski wrote: post #104
zeth___ wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious, how were you doing any of these things 4 months ago when the average transaction fee was $40?

The question answers itself: they weren't. It also beggars belief that they were regularly spending bitcoins that was shifting in value by hundreds of USD in a matter of hours. The would be irrational to the point of lunacy if true, but I don't believe it is.

What is the crazy part?

I bought BTC at 200, 400, 800, 1200, 3000, 11,000, and 7,000.

I like BTC wayyy better than USD. If I need to spend 2$ at taco bell, I'll just use my bitcoin.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#132

Post by mr_spothawk »

jonknee wrote: post #82
mkirklions wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are only a given number of total bitcoins in existence, which many (myself included) would argue makes it a poor currency. I have always question who says this. What makes you think deflation would be bad? My conspiracy is that governments require inflation to print themselves out of bad policy. Without government abilities to do this, the government performs poorly. Common citizens do not lose 2-4% of their…

> What makes you think deflation would be bad? Literally economics 101. Investment grinds to a halt and progress along with it.

I keep reading that "economics isn't a science"

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#133

Post by spookthesunset »

mkirklions wrote: post #65
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because - and everyone but the uninformed or idealists know this - it's an investment product. It's simply not suitable as a currency, because one, inflation / instability, and two, it can only do what, a dozen transactions a second, if that? That's not nearly enough to become a viable currency.

Speak for yourself. I use bitcoin all the time for payments. Peer to peer using coinbase(email) for free and instant to friends. Shift card for free and instant at merchants. Bitcoin is beyond blockchain, companies have built products to trade BTC instantly, free, using the infrastructure already existing. The transaction time 'problem' doesnt really exist if you are into crypto, you know how to use it. And I dont tr…

> Bitcoin is beyond blockchain, companies have built products to trade BTC instantly, free, using the infrastructure already existing

If bitcoin is "beyond blockchain", than what is it? Just a table of transactions in a Real Database™? If yes, whats the point?

You've just layered a very bank-sounding, very-centralized construct on top of your space-age "trustless" decentralized blockchain. How is it at all revolutionary since you've basically gone and re-invented a much shitter version of the credit card and traditional (evil) fiat banking.

> And I dont trust USD like I trust BTC. Historically Fiat currencies are awful.

I feel like bitcoin people live in some kind of alternate reality that I simply don't understand. Is it the fact that they have so much invested in the concept that they lose the ability to think clearly? Is it a cult? A religion?

I'm not sure, but it sure is an interesting phenomenon.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#134

Post by bufferoverflow »

simias wrote: post #17

>the global currency of the future, that they need to buy some, and that he’s the man to safeguard it. Looks like in the future people hoard currency instead of spending and investing it then. That ought to be interesting. It also demonstrates the costs associated with non-reversible transactions, these vaults aren't storing gold ingots or priceless artifacts, just private keys. Banks around the world don't need to w…

Safety deposit boxes are cheap. Put your encrypted PK on paper, store copies in 2 or 3 separate boxes.

Your password can be stored in your memory. Or it can be something like the 100th sentence in your favorite book.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#135

Post by blackbrokkoli »

will_brown wrote: post #27
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the entire point of crypto is not relying on centralised institutions. Also, Bitcoin is not a startup.

At what point are the miners/network considered the centralized institution? Are corporations considered “decentralized institutions” in the world of bitcoin enthusiasts? After all corporations are made up of decentralized shareholders that can vote for and change the directors. If that doesn’t fit...what about a credit union? Like bitcoin there are no “owners/shareholders” of credit unions they are simply comprised…

Not sure if representative for "bitcoin enthusiasts", but here is how I see it:

As the written word spread in Europe after BC, it layed an important cornerstone for democracy and changed the world for good. Noone would argue with that, right?

Ok, so let's look at Europe from 500BC-1300BC. Corrupt monks forging official documents, under some goverments up only about 60-80% of the were real. Monks were people of god, so noone really investigated. For a long time, the emperor would sign with a simple line, because he couldn't actually write. Wow, how is that more valuable than spoken word?! Where is your democracy? Women can't read, poor can't read. Knowledge is stored exclusively by the church. Turns out writing things down is actually a really backward philosophy! Or is it?

And that's where we're with Crypto right now, IMO. I'm not saying this is as revolutionary as writing, not even close. I'm not even saying it will turn into a good thing. BUT I really like the underlying idea, the concept, of it. Of course there are greedy shitheads, companys taking advantage, fraud and projects which are uterly useless. But yet I didn't came across an argument which convinced that the concept of non-centralizing via blockchain can't work.

So, to actually answer your question, I think we shouldn't mix up the discussion about the philosophy, potential and future of Blockchain with individual cases like "is this pump and dump worse than 2008 greed of banks" (which is also an important discussion, but a seperate one).

Does that make any sense?

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#136

Post by spookthesunset »

mkirklions wrote: post #120
jonknee wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Historically Fiat currencies are awful Fiat has ushered in an absolutely amazing period of global growth that has made us unbelievably wealthy. But there is inflation, so why not go with the thing that has no history?

We've had gold, and it was a massive equalizer between major powers. If someone overspent, they had to be smarter until they regained their wealth. Inflation has destroys savings for the masses who keeps cash more than investment. We've seen this a half dozen times in the last 100 years.

> We've had gold, and it was a massive equalizer between major powers.

The gold standard was one of the worst fiscal policies ever. Its use was directly responsible for the destruction of millions of lives. Arguing to bring it back shows incredible nativity and a severe lack of history.

I suggest you read up on how horrible of an idea the gold standard was before you spout this kind of nonsense.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#137

Post by spankalee »

mkirklions wrote: post #120
jonknee wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Historically Fiat currencies are awful Fiat has ushered in an absolutely amazing period of global growth that has made us unbelievably wealthy. But there is inflation, so why not go with the thing that has no history?

We've had gold, and it was a massive equalizer between major powers. If someone overspent, they had to be smarter until they regained their wealth. Inflation has destroys savings for the masses who keeps cash more than investment. We've seen this a half dozen times in the last 100 years.

Inflation values future work over past work. It's not inherently bad.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#139

Post by clarkmoody »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #134
simias wrote: post #17

>the global currency of the future, that they need to buy some, and that he’s the man to safeguard it. Looks like in the future people hoard currency instead of spending and investing it then. That ought to be interesting. It also demonstrates the costs associated with non-reversible transactions, these vaults aren't storing gold ingots or priceless artifacts, just private keys. Banks around the world don't need to w…

Safety deposit boxes are cheap. Put your encrypted PK on paper, store copies in 2 or 3 separate boxes. Your password can be stored in your memory. Or it can be something like the 100th sentence in your favorite book.

Don't use any portion of any written work as your private key! Brute-force attacks will use every bit of written literature to do this same search.

You must use securely-generated random key phrases, or you will lose your coins.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#140

Post by spookthesunset »

mkirklions wrote: post #129
zeth___ wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious, how were you doing any of these things 4 months ago when the average transaction fee was $40?

Coinbase Peer to Peer using email is free and instant. Shift card had like a 10$ fee for printing the card, but its free and instant. The only time I did an on-chain transaction in the last 3 years was moving money to another exchange to buy alt-coins.

> The only time I did an on-chain transaction in the last 3 years was moving money to another exchange to buy alt-coins.

So you used a "totally not a bank, but really a bank" bank, eh?

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