The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers • Hacker News Board

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#101

Post by mkirklions » Wed, May 09, 2018, 2:19 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #30

imgabe wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you weren't around in 2008. Oh remember those securitized mortgages we sold you? Yeah, they're worthless now. By the way we bought insurance on them becoming worthless, because we were pretty sure this would happen when we sold them to you.

Those were speculative investments, not bank accounts. Nobody lost money in an FDIC insured account. The comparison is also dubious for another reason: everyone who did even the tiniest bit of diligence knew the mortgage and derivative markets were in a huge bubble. Phrases like “liar loan” were common, they had to invent new ways to rate derivatives which didn’t meet the traditional standards, etc. but so many peopl…

>the rules are completely different now because magic.

Currency that isnt controlled by any government is different. Previously that was limited to gold only. Gold was hard to move and expensive to keep safe. Bitcoin can be sent for free using exchanges or on a piece of paper or about 1000 other ways.

Easy to move gold is almost magic.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#102

Post by st26 » Wed, May 09, 2018, 2:20 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #42

simias wrote: post #17

>the global currency of the future, that they need to buy some, and that he’s the man to safeguard it. Looks like in the future people hoard currency instead of spending and investing it then. That ought to be interesting. It also demonstrates the costs associated with non-reversible transactions, these vaults aren't storing gold ingots or priceless artifacts, just private keys. Banks around the world don't need to w…

> "Looks like in the future people hoard currency instead of spending and investing it then. That ought to be interesting." That sounds like the current to me. Too much is locked up (in too few hands) instead of doing what currency should do. That is, reduce the friction of trade (i.e., goods, skills, etc.) Currency is a lubricant. It's no surprise things are drying up.

That sounds like the current to me. Too much is locked up

I wonder if you can trace parallels between this observed circumstance, and our current low interest rates & low levels of inflation.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#103

Post by imgabe » Wed, May 09, 2018, 2:20 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #86

imgabe wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the laws and regulations written by lobbyists paid by the bankers? Do you mean the regulators who leave their Federal jobs for multi-million dollar per year jobs at the banks they formerly regulated? Are those the ones you're talking about? You seem to be implying that the regulations / laws and the banks are two separate entities. They're increasingly the same. Which means that yes, it is basically their go…

And you think all the problems with banks would go away if they simply operated without any regulation at all?

When did I say that?

I think at the highest levels they already do operate without any regulation. When you get to write your own regulations and there's a revolving door between the regulatory agencies and the companies they're suppose to regulate, there is no meaningful regulation.

Bitcoin and other digital currencies are a threat to them because there is no central agency in charge of it that they can infiltrate and control the way the have with government-run currencies. At least, they haven't found a way to control and manipulate it, yet.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#104

Post by pwinnski » Wed, May 09, 2018, 2:21 PM UTC

zeth___ wrote: post #87

mkirklions wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speak for yourself. I use bitcoin all the time for payments. Peer to peer using coinbase(email) for free and instant to friends. Shift card for free and instant at merchants. Bitcoin is beyond blockchain, companies have built products to trade BTC instantly, free, using the infrastructure already existing. The transaction time 'problem' doesnt really exist if you are into crypto, you know how to use it. And I dont tr…

I am curious, how were you doing any of these things 4 months ago when the average transaction fee was $40?

The question answers itself: they weren't. It also beggars belief that they were regularly spending bitcoins that was shifting in value by hundreds of USD in a matter of hours. The would be irrational to the point of lunacy if true, but I don't believe it is.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#105

Post by blueprint » Wed, May 09, 2018, 2:21 PM UTC

api wrote: post #26

simias wrote: post #17

>the global currency of the future, that they need to buy some, and that he’s the man to safeguard it. Looks like in the future people hoard currency instead of spending and investing it then. That ought to be interesting. It also demonstrates the costs associated with non-reversible transactions, these vaults aren't storing gold ingots or priceless artifacts, just private keys. Banks around the world don't need to w…

Bitcoin seems to have already undergone a deflationary collapse. Its original goal of Internet money has been abandoned in favor of the concocted idea that it is a "store of value." Unfortunately it's a poor store of value since it requires a constant stream of electricity to maintain. Gold, land, and other traditional idle stores of value just sit there and are free to maintain with the exception of the cost of phys…

> Unfortunately it's a poor store of value since it requires a constant stream of electricity to maintain.

"Earth is a poor store of life because it requires a constant stream of light to maintain." Hm no, that doesn't work...

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#106

Post by dota_fanatic » Wed, May 09, 2018, 2:21 PM UTC

unit91 wrote: post #71

This kind of debate by selective vocabulary is frustrating. If a poor or middle class person sits on the cash he has, he's "saving". If a wealthy person sits on the cash he has, he's "hoarding". Regardless of the topic at hand, let's be consistent enough in our terms to think and discuss the issues fairly and clearly without all the pejorative terms. If we have to resort to name-calling, we might not have a very good…

A person has 250 units of food sitting in a room, earns them at 2 units per day, and can consume them at 1 unit per day. They have saved 250 units such that if they stopped earning, they'll be alright.

Another person has 2,500,000,000 units of food sitting in a room, earns them at 200,000 units per day, and can consume them at 100 units per day (not as filling but tastier let's say). They are... also only saving? C'mon.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#107

Post by api » Wed, May 09, 2018, 2:22 PM UTC

Kiro wrote: post #88

chiefalchemist wrote: post #48

Bunkers? Like prepper bunkers? To survive what? If things go __that__ sideways, a hoard of crypto-currency will be the least of their worries. Apparently, even the financially wealthy can be common sense poor.

Alternatively, if things really go that sideways bitcoin will be the only valuable currency in the world.

Bitcoin requires an Internet, computers, and electricity to function.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#108

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 09, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

mkirklions wrote: post #65

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because - and everyone but the uninformed or idealists know this - it's an investment product. It's simply not suitable as a currency, because one, inflation / instability, and two, it can only do what, a dozen transactions a second, if that? That's not nearly enough to become a viable currency.

Speak for yourself. I use bitcoin all the time for payments. Peer to peer using coinbase(email) for free and instant to friends. Shift card for free and instant at merchants. Bitcoin is beyond blockchain, companies have built products to trade BTC instantly, free, using the infrastructure already existing. The transaction time 'problem' doesnt really exist if you are into crypto, you know how to use it. And I dont tr…

[deleted]

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#109

Post by loceng » Wed, May 09, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #17

>the global currency of the future, that they need to buy some, and that he’s the man to safeguard it. Looks like in the future people hoard currency instead of spending and investing it then. That ought to be interesting. It also demonstrates the costs associated with non-reversible transactions, these vaults aren't storing gold ingots or priceless artifacts, just private keys. Banks around the world don't need to w…

If you're incentivized (as these incentivized crypto-assets are) to hold onto something until enough other people perceive it's value as being higher (whether tricked into it through various methods or other), needing them to legitimize and realize the value, then people will hold onto it - and they'll use part of their resources to bring other people into the game.

If society adopts these incentivized crypto-assets that $10B the could become valued at trillions of dollars, which then is buying power shifted away from society as a whole - and where those holders have done no work to actual make those gains. This attracts enough bad actors and incentives bad behaviour.

Re: The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers

#110

Post by st26 » Wed, May 09, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

Kiro wrote: post #88

chiefalchemist wrote: post #48

Bunkers? Like prepper bunkers? To survive what? If things go __that__ sideways, a hoard of crypto-currency will be the least of their worries. Apparently, even the financially wealthy can be common sense poor.

Alternatively, if things really go that sideways bitcoin will be the only valuable currency in the world.

That seems like nonsense. If things are that much of a mess, internet & electricity will presumably be spotty and computers will cease manufacture (& slowly decay until failure). Better to have tangible currency. Will that be USD, or precious metals, or ammunition? I don't know, but I'd bet on something you can touch.