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Android P

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Re: Android P

#261

Post by pilsetnieks »

chrismorgan wrote: post #235
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is: Your phone will not get security updates if you don't accept the latest Android release. So your choice, really, is to either accept the update or get a phone running a different OS.

Android phones don’t tend to get security updates anyway.

If you have the option to update to Android P and choose not to, you definitely miss out on the security updates in Android P, and possible updates to Android P afterwards.

The fact that many Android phones don't receive security updates is not relevant here.

Re: Android P

#262

Post by lern_too_spel »

taneq wrote: post #142
dmitrygr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

go to settings, gps mode, select "always high accuracy" presto - no google - only actual GPS signals used. But good luck - you'll see just how terrible GPS is indoors and in urban canyons. Without wifi and BLE augmentation it truly sucks.

There's two issues here: 1) Using visible WiFi networks to determine location sends data to Google to use their geolocation database. Your suggestion here does stop this (assuming you meant to DE-select "always high accuracy" and instead select "device only" which uses the GPS without sending any data offboard.) 2) Google pushes the use of Google Play location services API over Android's location services system API.…

That is the same with iOS, but iOS doesn't even give you the option of disabling AGPS. Google Location Services' AGPS is anonymized, exactly like iOS's implementation.

Re: Android P

#263

Post by lern_too_spel »

convivialdingo wrote: post #133
airlocksoftware wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Location tracking requires specific permission from the user, not as part of installation. I think you're a bit out of date. https://developer.android.com/distribute/best-practices/deve...

I recently switched to iOS for this reason. Yes there are permissions - but Android still periodically activated location services despite my settings. Googles insistence on capturing as much data as possible about me is just creepy. I disabled voice search, location history, and everything else I could. Switching to DuckDuckGo made a big difference, but still the data gets swallowed up. I know that Apple is only sli…

Apple doesn't even give you the option of disabling its AGPS implementation, so in that respect, you are worse off.

Re: Android P

#264

Post by [deleted] »

muro wrote: post #210
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ironic given that Android P lifted iPhone X navigation and is adding support for notches, also lifted from the iPhone X.

Essential phone had a notch before the iPhone X :)

[deleted]

Re: Android P

#265

Post by 013a »

catach wrote: post #246
gowld wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple common example: I frequently share content to my spouse. One day, I share content to my parent. Next day, the order of users in the sharebox has changed, so my parent is in the spot my spouse used to be, so my muscle memory sends my parent a message meant for my spouse.

That sounds deterministic (last used first shown) but also unpleasantly surprising given your particular use patterns.

Everything in this universe, short of quantum nuclear decay and atmospheric noise, is deterministic. AI is deterministic; we just often don't understand why the outputs it gives arise from the inputs.

Similarly, a FIFO system for a share sheet is definitely deterministic, but that is immaterial to the question of whether it is predictable by its users. And that's what matters.

Re: Android P

#266

Post by lern_too_spel »

givinguflac wrote: post #136
ams6110 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even on older phones, you can turn location services off, which I do at all times unless I'm actively navigating.

This doesn’t actually help on android as google can still determine location by scanning local WiFi network info.

But it doesn't. Google Location Services is what gives permission to use Google's AGPS service. Meanwhile, on iOS, there is no way to disable that at all.

Re: Android P

#267

Post by wtvanhest »

cma wrote: post #178
wtvanhest wrote: post #166

If someone from google reads this, can you please consider removing the functionality that periodically drops the nav bar at the top down? Many people use the top of their screen as a bar to line up and read text. Your site is basically unreadable.

When you scroll up to reread something, it literally hides it.

That removes my ability to read the site because it keeps moving so I keep losing my place.

Re: Android P

#268

Post by lern_too_spel »

untog wrote: post #147
lern_too_spel wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need for Google Location Services unless you want to access Google's location data. https://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/pac...

You as a developer, yes. But you as a user have no choice if the developer has decided to use Google Location Services.

As a user, you just simply never opt in to using Google Location Services, something that is not even possible on iOS.

Re: Android P

#269

Post by lern_too_spel »

kuschku wrote: post #162
lern_too_spel wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to do WiFi Geolocation, you now need to use Google Play Services. This was always using Google's proprietary data, even in the G1 days. They split it out into Play Services, so Chinese phones using another provider would be possible. > If you want to use background notifications, you now need to use Google Play Services. Background notifications weren't even possible on the G1 when it launched. When bac…

> This was always using Google's proprietary data, even in the G1 days. They split it out into Play Services, so Chinese phones using another provider would be possible. Incorrect, in the past your apps could access the raw data and feed it into Mozilla’s Geolocation APIs. This is not possible anymore (but returning in limited form with 9.0). > Background notifications weren't even possible on the G1 when it launched…

Now you are confusing what the platform allows you to do (which has decreased to help battery life) with what the open source platform has implemented for you (which has increased drastically). Every single statement in your post is an example of that. For example, push services, which were never open source, can still be implemented by third parties as a system app. This has always been the case.

> I seriously suggest you actually go and try to build apps for non-Google Play devices at least a single fricken time, or try to build ROMs, before you comment.

I've built apps for the Amazon App Store and built AOSP from source multiple times. That's not the issue here. The issue is that you were confusing the fact that more of the things on Pixel devices are not open source (true, but Pixel doesn't claim to be an AOSP device) with fewer things being available in open source (which is false) and are now confusing fewer things being allowed to third party apps (true) with fewer things being available in open source (still false).

Re: Android P

#270

Post by lern_too_spel »

kuschku wrote: post #160
lern_too_spel wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't disable the only launcher on your phone. Just install another launcher, set that launcher as your default, and the end result is exactly what you would want (no Google launcher running). This is not possible at all on iOS. Also, you've once again conflated "stock" with Google phone. If you use more precise terminology, you won't be so confused.

I have a different launcher installed, and in use. I backported the changes Google did in their launcher to Launcher3, built that, installed it, and am using it. Yet I can still not disable these Google apps. EDIT: Screenshot https://i.k8r.eu/4ZLdMA

And by installing a different launcher, the Google apps never run, which is the effect you wanted to achieve. You gain nothing by disabling the apps after that.

If you were able to disable the apps and then uninstall the the new launcher, your phone would be unusable until you did a factory reset from recovery.

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