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Android P

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Re: Android P

#201

Post by pjmlp »

izacus wrote: post #197
pjmlp wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why there is this thing called legal agreements. If Google actually cared, they would impose support requirements on OEMs that wanted to play on Android playground.

And they did. It's called Project Treble.

No they did not, that is an urban myth easily dismissed with Google's documents and related ADB podcast.

OEMs are expected to push updates just like before, having a certified Treble device is meaningless, if the OEM does not care to provide OS updates.

Re: Android P

#202

Post by hvidgaard »

izacus wrote: post #192
hvidgaard wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not fine grained permissions. There is something that is better than it used to be, but fine grained is not what I'd call it. For instance, I believe the following should be possible for photos alone. * Give an app access to only save, not read my photos * Give an app ability to read one specific photo (think upload a photo to facebook) * Take pictures without always having access to the camera. That is fine…

All of those options exists and are implemented - apps can invoke OS photo picker which exposes a single photo. Apps can store photos to storage without requesting read access to other directories. Apps can request a photo intent which opens camera without exposing anything to them. You just choose to use apps which instead request you give them permissions to whole photo storage.

That is by definition not fine grained permissions that I'm in control of. Of course apps can do that. But we know that will never be the default way of doing it. I want the OS to be in charge, not only asking the developers to play along nicely, because they will go where the money is.

Saying that I can just choose to use apps that do it "the right way" is the same as saying "you can just not use a smart phone". I can see the value in smart phones and in popular apps. What I'm asking for it a pragmatic choice where the OS puts me in charge, because it's not working to just ask the developers to play nicely.

Re: Android P

#203

Post by tomp »

nine_k wrote: post #139
tomp wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building an app is way too much barrier to entry... What I wish is something like, right-click or swipe down to open console , enter some script (or copy-paste/import a highly starred from a public repository), close console, ta-da. If the API was flexible enough, the scripts would mostly be short and obviously non-exploiting (i.e. a script for graying-out the screen shouldn't use the internet API) so they would be v…

A few steps further you will invent something like Emacs. Or maybe Atom. Or browser extensions. BTW do you remember why making a browser extension is a bit involved, and publishing, even more so? Trusting someone else's code. Copy -pasting it from a message board may end up in a problem.

That sounds more like a sandboxing/permissions problem... Also, it doesn't help that JavaScript is a terrible language.

Re: Android P

#204

Post by Aaargh20318 »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #98
kuschku wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all of it is closed. Since the G1, the following parts are just some of the many that were removed from the open project and replaced with proprietary ones: Launcher, Dialer (the actual phone app), Contacts, Calendar, Email, on-device Search (last open in 2.3.7), and many more. Everything that the user touches or sees is closed source.

All of those apps exist in AOSP and have many open source equivalents not developed by Google. The platform that those apps run on is just as open now as it was in the G1 days.

> The platform that those apps run on is just as open now as it was in the G1 days.

It never was open.

Sure, Google ups a bunch of source code to AOSP after the release of a new version but there is no actual OSS-style development going on. All development is behind closed doors, only done by Google and the public cannot contribute.

I cannot check out the latest development version of Android from github, fix some issues and send a PR. It's all a one-way street.

Re: Android P

#205

Post by timendum »

jayd16 wrote: post #168
ohazi wrote: post #153

Am I the only one who doesn't want a phone that arbitrarily changes behavior in opaque and uncontrollable ways? Machine learning is fine for hard tasks like voice recognition, but it really shouldn't be used for things that would otherwise be a few checkboxes. I know the trend nowadays is to assume that users are irredeemably stupid, but this? Seriously? You can keep this update. I don't want it.

You say that but the reality is its really convenient. I go to a taco place every Thursday and pre-order the tacos for pick up from their app. The app icon is only ever in the suggested list around lunch time on Thursdays. How awesome is that? Its pointless borrowing trouble. Complain when they screw up, not when you think they can't pull it off.

It's awesome but I prefer muscle memory: after a while I already know when an icon is before it appears so I can open it without searching for it.

Re: Android P

#206

Post by Aaargh20318 »

kuschku wrote: post #90
metasaval wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm not mad at all. I'm glad that both iOS and Android are implementing one of WebOS' best feature. Using the Android P beta now and it seems to be most of the way there.

It's the worst part of Android P, and I'll patch AOSP to get rid of it for my devices. If I open a task switcher, I want to see a lot of my open tasks. Not one, not three, not even four, but dozens. How long am I supposed to be swiping if there's hundreds of open tasks? And scrolling with the home button is even worse. Let's hope Android Q quickly gets rid of this again.

> How long am I supposed to be swiping if there's hundreds of open tasks?

It's a phone with a small as fuck screen, not a workstation with a big monitor. Why do you even have 'hundreds of open tasks' on a phone ?

Re: Android P

#207

Post by toxik »

convivialdingo wrote: post #133
airlocksoftware wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Location tracking requires specific permission from the user, not as part of installation. I think you're a bit out of date. https://developer.android.com/distribute/best-practices/deve...

I recently switched to iOS for this reason. Yes there are permissions - but Android still periodically activated location services despite my settings. Googles insistence on capturing as much data as possible about me is just creepy. I disabled voice search, location history, and everything else I could. Switching to DuckDuckGo made a big difference, but still the data gets swallowed up. I know that Apple is only sli…

It was said in another thread, Apple's financial interests align better with their users -- Google keep insisting on stalking their own users. I'm so happy I don't have a Gmail account.

Re: Android P

#208

Post by toxik »

refulgentis wrote: post #157
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can already disable SMS, phone and location permissions (and others) for each app This doesn't address the comment you replied to in any way. Surely you see that there's a gap in reasoning between "I want to be able to add my location, just not have my location always broadcast to them" and "you can disable location entirely". Your suggestion specifically violates the "I want to be able to add my location" part…

Bwah? The permissions model is the same on Android and iOS, if you opt into permissions, you have to "manually switch between white/black lists to opt them out"

Nope, there's three options on iOS location sharing: never, always, and while using app.

Re: Android P

#209

Post by youwishboye »

esaym wrote: post #150

About 18 months ago I bought a Samsung S6 off of ebay new in a box for $250. Was actually my first "real" smart phone. I've liked it quite a bit but was disappointed at them taking 8+ months to bring android updates. I was thinking I might get Oreo this August or so. But then I just learned that they've (Sumsung) discontinued all S6 support. So now I guess I'm screwed. I really liked the samsung health app and the bu…

FWIW, I don't think you're gonna find any Android phone with more than 3 years support. Most have 2 years.

Apple on the other hand updates their iPhones as long as the hardware supports it.

Re: Android P

#210

Post by muro »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #159
dyarosla wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is known to shamelessly copy features that work and are consumer friendly- I have no doubt that they'll be keeping a close eye on how consumers respond to these updates.

This is ironic given that Android P lifted iPhone X navigation and is adding support for notches, also lifted from the iPhone X.

Essential phone had a notch before the iPhone X :)
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