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'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#51

Post by hknd »

LifeLiverTransp wrote: post #18
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

>Mark my words, Berlin will be Europe's Silicon Valley within a few years. It might happen- but it still wont have an airport.

Munich is still the city with the most IT jobs and companies - I don't know if Berlin will catch up. Berlin has this start-up flare image, but based on numbers that's just not true.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#52

Post by hknd »

valarauca1 wrote: post #28
drinchev wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Berlin will be Europe's Silicon Valley within a few years. Things that need to happen before this : 1. Salaries need to grow faster. Rent is really high for the new comers specialists. 2. Companies need to increase the salary gap between good and bad workers. Right now you are not able to negotiate more than 10% on top of the "average" salary. 3. Germany needs to fix the privileges of employees having options / sha…

> Salaries need to grow faster Berlin software engineer salaries are seriously worse then any where in america. I’ve seen desktop IT support in the US MidWest pay more than developers in Berlin. Hard to convince me to move internationally and write code. I can just move home, write zero code, and spend all day telling people to try, “turning it off and on again”. Cashing identical value checks.

It also looks super bad if you compare it to southern Germany salaries.

Based on my interaction with "top" recruiters from Germany, I figured that I can compare: Senior SWE salary in the south with a CTO/Head-of salary in Berlin.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#53

Post by mhomde »

dx034 wrote: post #44
brombeer wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more likely to be Amsterdam, Zurich or Stockholm. Large corporations don't want their headquarters in Berlin for tax reasons: There's a reason they're all moving to Switzerland. The tech scene in Europe is very scattered.

Stockholm has a thriving tech industry and not really low tax rates. Tech can easily headquarter in a low tax domicile and employ most people in another country, all bigger companies are already doing that. I don't think that the difference in income tax explains where tech companies settle, it'll be much more dependent on availability of talent (and how easy it is to get people to move there). That's why Amsterdam,…

Yeah, but a huge problem with finding accommodation for it's recruits. In contrast to Berlin it's impossible to get a first hand rent contract. A second hand is going to be super expensive and buying somewhere somewhat central is ridiculously expensive.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nordics-housing/both-immi...

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#54

Post by dx034 »

mhomde wrote: post #32
dragandj wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it lacks an international airport Berlin has an international airport.

Sorry, I think I meant transatlantic airport, or a "large" airport. Not sure, it used to lack something I heard but not sure exactly what and if it's still true. They're struggling with building a new one so something :)

The lack of direct flights is partly due to the short connection to Frankfurt from where you can connect to most destinations in the world. That's also why some other German cities (Hamburg, Cologne, Hannover) have few transcontinental flights, despite the demand. There has been an increase in direct flights from Berlin recently but towards the US, Heathrow and Frankfurt are on the way and BA/LH can price out competitors easily.

Berlin is certainly underserved given its size but that's just the Frankfurt effect (an airport with >60m passengers p.a. for a city <1m population).

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#55

Post by erikb »

mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

This is also Mutti Merkel's proclaimed goal, stated like 10 years ago. She is patient, but she usually achieves what she sets out to do.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#56

Post by hknd »

ornitorrincos wrote: post #27
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

It does have two international airports: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Tegel_Airport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Sch%C3%B6nefeld_Airport Although they are planned to be closed when the third one opens(this one doesn't have a lack of issues though): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Brandenburg_Airport

I think people think at something like FRA or LHR when talking about an international airport.

Tegel+Schoenefeld have combined ~30M passengers per year. FRA has ~65M, and LHR has ~80M.

Number of intercontinental flights from Berlin is just super low s.t. most business travelers fly do a stopover in FRA.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#57

Post by erikb »

aestetix wrote: post #39
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

I think this is overblown. The Berlin "housing crisis" is only happening in a few trendy neighborhoods-- Neuköln, Kreuzberg, F-schein, etc. There is a rather ill-informed effort to attempt to compare it to, for example, what is happening in the Bay Area, which is absurd. In the Bay Area, any place to live within walking distance of public transit is so expensive that only tech workers can afford it, extending far bey…

Even in Lichtenberg, certainly not trendy at all, rents have increased significantly (although not doubled yet afaik).

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#58

Post by aestetix »

uhnuhnuhn wrote: post #48
aestetix wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is overblown. The Berlin "housing crisis" is only happening in a few trendy neighborhoods-- Neuköln, Kreuzberg, F-schein, etc. There is a rather ill-informed effort to attempt to compare it to, for example, what is happening in the Bay Area, which is absurd. In the Bay Area, any place to live within walking distance of public transit is so expensive that only tech workers can afford it, extending far bey…

The Berlin housing crisis is very much happening almost everywhere. City-wide average rents increased 45% between 2009-2015. Rents doubled in some districts in that timeframe and even in the least affected areas (Marzahn and Spandau) rents increased by more than 30%.

I'd argue that's a reflection on what I said before (prices normalizing from dirt-cheap). I do not consider these numbers a crisis at all.

Here is an example of why the Bay Area is in a crisis: https://abcnews.go.com/US/san-francisco-resident-fights-sudd...

A San Francisco man had his rent increased from $1800 a month to $8000 a month. True, it is one of the more extreme examples, but this is what I would call a crisis. Can you show me examples like this from Berlin?

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#59

Post by tannhaeuser »

mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

It's "poor but sexy".

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#60

Post by _b8r0 »

LifeLiverTransp wrote: post #18
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

>Mark my words, Berlin will be Europe's Silicon Valley within a few years. It might happen- but it still wont have an airport.

Berlin has two airports, Tegel and Schoenefeld.
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