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'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#31

Post by passiveincomelg »

ksec wrote: post #17
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

Slightly Off Topic: I thought Germany has some form of protection by law so rent and property market don't get to hike the prices to whatever they want. So while the world 's property market is on fire by QE, Berlin hasn't moved a needle at all. So why has rent risen so much?

They always find some loophole. Often it's some kind of construction work like "improving isolation". AFAIK the rent control laws also don't apply for furnished flats.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#32

Post by mhomde »

dragandj wrote: post #29
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

> it lacks an international airport Berlin has an international airport.

Sorry, I think I meant transatlantic airport, or a "large" airport. Not sure, it used to lack something I heard but not sure exactly what and if it's still true. They're struggling with building a new one so something :)

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#33

Post by arximboldi »

valarauca1 wrote: post #28
drinchev wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Berlin will be Europe's Silicon Valley within a few years. Things that need to happen before this : 1. Salaries need to grow faster. Rent is really high for the new comers specialists. 2. Companies need to increase the salary gap between good and bad workers. Right now you are not able to negotiate more than 10% on top of the "average" salary. 3. Germany needs to fix the privileges of employees having options / sha…

> Salaries need to grow faster Berlin software engineer salaries are seriously worse then any where in america. I’ve seen desktop IT support in the US MidWest pay more than developers in Berlin. Hard to convince me to move internationally and write code. I can just move home, write zero code, and spend all day telling people to try, “turning it off and on again”. Cashing identical value checks.

While I would be happy to have higher salaries here, they are not really comparable to the US. Here you have a social system (free education, public health insurance) and work way less (hardly 8 hours a day, 25-30 days vacation as normal, etc.). For European standards salaries here are actually rather decent. With the current rent situation, I hope though they rise to the standards of the more affluent German south.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#34

Post by biztos »

mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

I agree completely that "cheap Berlin" is rapidly disappearing. Just this morning I was checking real-estate prices[0] for the first time in a few years and was a bit shocked. Folks in Silicon Valley or Munich or Hamburg would probably still find it cheap-ish but AFAIK local salaries have not remotely kept up with this trend. A million Euros for a nice family-sized flat in a good neighborhood is not exotic anymore, but for most Berliners that's an absurd sum.

Another interesting thing is that there are more and more ways to spend more and more of your money in Berlin. Consumerism is definitely on the rise, which IMO is bad news for people not making much money.

I wouldn't say Berlin lacks an international airport, I would say instead that the corruption/incompetence nexus managed to spare us the monstrosity of BER[1] and we can continue to use the lovely old urban airport at Tegel[2], though granted there are a lot of stopovers depending on where you're going.

Anyway I really doubt Berlin will be anything like Silicon Valley, well, ever. You could start with how radically differently the local tech scene views labor, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. I would love to be wrong though.

[edit: formatting]

[0]: https://www.immobilienscout24.de

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Brandenburg_Airport

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Tegel_Airport

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#35

Post by taejo »

ksec wrote: post #17
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

Slightly Off Topic: I thought Germany has some form of protection by law so rent and property market don't get to hike the prices to whatever they want. So while the world 's property market is on fire by QE, Berlin hasn't moved a needle at all. So why has rent risen so much?

Germany has fairly strong protection against rent increases for existing tenants: during a tenancy the rent can only increase up to the "ortsübliche Vergleichsmiete" (average rent of comparable properties in the same town), and by a maximum of 15%/20% (depending on location, 15% in Berlin) over three years.

In Berlin and many other cities there's also rent stabilization ("Mietpreisbremse") for new tenants: new leases on old properties may not exceed the maximum of 110% of the "ortsübliche Vergleichsmiete" and the previous tenant's rent. This falls away if the property is substantially renovated.

Renovations can stop both of these from working: in the former case by increasing the value of the apartment so that the set of "comparable properties" is much more expensive, possibly forcing the current tenant out so a new, wealthier tenant can be found to negotiate a new contract; in the second case, the control falls away completely if the value of renovations in the last five (?) years is at least a third of the total value.

The Mietpreisbremse is widely ignored: advertised rents exceed the limit for more often than not, and the landlords choose tenants they think are least likely to sue over it. The worst case for the landlord is that they have to pay back the difference from the point where the tenant complained; the best case is that the Federal Constitutional Court invalidates the law (which is fairly new and not yet judicially tested).

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#36

Post by INTPenis »

arximboldi wrote: post #4

I live in the neighbourhood, very close to where the "campus" is being built. I understand that Google has a lot of symbolic value in the protests, but I don't think that it actually will have such an impact. Paul-linke-ufer is already full of startups and relatively affluent american hipsters flood the caffes in the hood. That is also ok, I guess, (like UFO361 says hahaha), people in the end can live wherever they w…

I don't think the majority is protesting specifically against the campus building. But rather against Google as a tax evading company and global brand of personal data gathering.

In that sense they're in the same category as your landlords. Economic crime favoring the rich.

But what do I know, I'm not even in Germany. You should go to the protest and ask them.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#37

Post by brombeer »

mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

I think it's more likely to be Amsterdam, Zurich or Stockholm.

Large corporations don't want their headquarters in Berlin for tax reasons: There's a reason they're all moving to Switzerland.

The tech scene in Europe is very scattered.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#38

Post by tnolet »

I live in this neighbourhood and my office is on the same street, one block from the new campus. The area is nice and lively, so I get people want an office there (hell, I did the same!). But Google has the means to positively impact the less hip, more strugling parts of Berlin. I bet people would welcome them with open arms in Marzhan or Wedding.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#39

Post by aestetix »

mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

I think this is overblown. The Berlin "housing crisis" is only happening in a few trendy neighborhoods-- Neuköln, Kreuzberg, F-schein, etc.

There is a rather ill-informed effort to attempt to compare it to, for example, what is happening in the Bay Area, which is absurd. In the Bay Area, any place to live within walking distance of public transit is so expensive that only tech workers can afford it, extending far beyond the San Francisco/Oakland city limits. In Berlin, if you don't mind living in one of the less "cool" neighborhoods, or gasp outside the Ringbahn, you will be fine.

I think the issue is that two decades ago, rents in Berlin were absurdly cheap for a number of reasons related to the DDR, and now things are starting to normalize a bit so people are complaining.

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