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'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#41

Post by biztos »

sneak wrote: post #8
arximboldi wrote: post #4

I live in the neighbourhood, very close to where the "campus" is being built. I understand that Google has a lot of symbolic value in the protests, but I don't think that it actually will have such an impact. Paul-linke-ufer is already full of startups and relatively affluent american hipsters flood the caffes in the hood. That is also ok, I guess, (like UFO361 says hahaha), people in the end can live wherever they w…

Paul-Lincke-Ufer was my first flat in Berlin, in 2008. A bedroom then went for €400/mo, and that was considered high then. Now I imagine it is 3-4x that.

I had a tiny studio with coal heating on Maybachufer in 1996 for under 200 DM (!) per month, "warm" (i.e. with the coal it was about 200).

But even back then: a single company owned the building, and kicked everyone out so they could renovate and get their gentrification bonus. To help motivate the older residents they started the exceptionally noisy renovation work at 6am every day.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#42

Post by tnolet »

dgellow wrote: post #2

The article makes it sound really bigger than it is. From what I experienced the opposition is quite small, signs anti-google are only visible in a few specific locations in one neighborhood, and in general only a few people are vocal against it (mostly anarchists or anti capitalists activists). I would expect some level of opposition from a fringe of the population in any city where Google or other tech giants want…

Correct. The weekly Friday night protests are pretty small. A recurring thing in Berlin seems that the very vocal squatters/antifa's drown out the moderate majority. I do symphatize, although weirdly the left in Berlin is so conservative and anti-change that sometimes they are hard to support.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#43

Post by dragandj »

mhomde wrote: post #32
dragandj wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it lacks an international airport Berlin has an international airport.

Sorry, I think I meant transatlantic airport, or a "large" airport. Not sure, it used to lack something I heard but not sure exactly what and if it's still true. They're struggling with building a new one so something :)

I've just checked: there are plenty of direct flights each day from Berlin to New York for example. It is not the central hub like Frankfurt is, but I doubt you won't fly to Berlin because it does not have enough infrastructure...

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#44

Post by dx034 »

brombeer wrote: post #37
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

I think it's more likely to be Amsterdam, Zurich or Stockholm. Large corporations don't want their headquarters in Berlin for tax reasons: There's a reason they're all moving to Switzerland. The tech scene in Europe is very scattered.

Stockholm has a thriving tech industry and not really low tax rates. Tech can easily headquarter in a low tax domicile and employ most people in another country, all bigger companies are already doing that. I don't think that the difference in income tax explains where tech companies settle, it'll be much more dependent on availability of talent (and how easy it is to get people to move there). That's why Amsterdam, Berlin and Stockholm are so successful, they are all within the EU and have a good reputation with internationals.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#45

Post by dx034 »

LifeLiverTransp wrote: post #18
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

>Mark my words, Berlin will be Europe's Silicon Valley within a few years. It might happen- but it still wont have an airport.

It'll probably still have two airports.. Luckily the flight to Frankfurt is short and from there you can connect to most places in the world. But wouldn't be surprised if Tegel gets a few more direct connection to the US west coast.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#46

Post by hknd »

biztos wrote: post #34
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

I agree completely that "cheap Berlin" is rapidly disappearing. Just this morning I was checking real-estate prices[0] for the first time in a few years and was a bit shocked. Folks in Silicon Valley or Munich or Hamburg would probably still find it cheap-ish but AFAIK local salaries have not remotely kept up with this trend. A million Euros for a nice family-sized flat in a good neighborhood is not exotic anymore, b…

Rents (and cost-of-living) are still super cheap compared to other metropolises like NYC, London or Singapore. Ratio of salary and cost-of-living is still looking good in Berlin.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#47

Post by biztos »

tnolet wrote: post #38

I live in this neighbourhood and my office is on the same street, one block from the new campus. The area is nice and lively, so I get people want an office there (hell, I did the same!). But Google has the means to positively impact the less hip, more strugling parts of Berlin. I bet people would welcome them with open arms in Marzhan or Wedding.

Yes, but would the people Google wants to hire want to work in Marzahn or Wedding?

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#48

Post by uhnuhnuhn »

aestetix wrote: post #39
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

I think this is overblown. The Berlin "housing crisis" is only happening in a few trendy neighborhoods-- Neuköln, Kreuzberg, F-schein, etc. There is a rather ill-informed effort to attempt to compare it to, for example, what is happening in the Bay Area, which is absurd. In the Bay Area, any place to live within walking distance of public transit is so expensive that only tech workers can afford it, extending far bey…

The Berlin housing crisis is very much happening almost everywhere. City-wide average rents increased 45% between 2009-2015. Rents doubled in some districts in that timeframe and even in the least affected areas (Marzahn and Spandau) rents increased by more than 30%.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#49

Post by taejo »

mhomde wrote: post #32
dragandj wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it lacks an international airport Berlin has an international airport.

Sorry, I think I meant transatlantic airport, or a "large" airport. Not sure, it used to lack something I heard but not sure exactly what and if it's still true. They're struggling with building a new one so something :)

There might be transatlantic flights from Tegel, I'm not sure, but they're rare. Moscow and the Canary Islands are more or less the limits. I usually find myself going through Frankfurt, Paris or Amsterdam for intercontinental travel.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#50

Post by dx034 »

valarauca1 wrote: post #28
drinchev wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Berlin will be Europe's Silicon Valley within a few years. Things that need to happen before this : 1. Salaries need to grow faster. Rent is really high for the new comers specialists. 2. Companies need to increase the salary gap between good and bad workers. Right now you are not able to negotiate more than 10% on top of the "average" salary. 3. Germany needs to fix the privileges of employees having options / sha…

> Salaries need to grow faster Berlin software engineer salaries are seriously worse then any where in america. I’ve seen desktop IT support in the US MidWest pay more than developers in Berlin. Hard to convince me to move internationally and write code. I can just move home, write zero code, and spend all day telling people to try, “turning it off and on again”. Cashing identical value checks.

The US has higher salaries across the board. But living costs are higher and you need to save more for pension, health care and education (if you have a family). Doesn't make salaries of SV comparable to Berlin but it's competitive vs most of Europe (and parts of Asia).
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