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Is it worth supporting Firefox?

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Re: Is it worth supporting Firefox?

#201

Post by wang_li »

annabellish wrote: post #109
juliangoldsmith wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Google and Facebooks of the world sell the idea that they can personalize ads better than content producers and so everyone relies on their trackers and javascripts to build content business online. Publishers should know their audience better than ad servers. Part of the problem is that Google and Facebook actually can know the audience better than the content creator. A content creator only knows that the reader i…

I'm honestly not sure how true this really is. I don't do anything intentionally to screw with advertisers, aside from standard ad blockers, and the targeted ads I get from things which aren't ad blocked are just... eh? I give Google a tonne of data, they know everything I search for, they know where I live and where I shop, they know how long I spend in a shop before buying something through android pay, et cetera.…

Targeted ads always seem to trail my interests. I search for a product, buy it, and then see ads for that product for two weeks. If Facebook and google want to show relevant ads they’ve got to figure out a way to be ahead and not behind my interests.

Re: Is it worth supporting Firefox?

#202

Post by Sylos »

adrian1973 wrote: post #111
DanBC wrote: post #61

There's a bunch fo websites (Atlantic being notable) that tell me I'm using an ad-blocker and ask me to turn it off. I'm not. I'm using stock Firefox. So, I guess their conversation goes: > We block Firefox (but don't know that we do so) > We don't see many Firefox users > Why do we optimise for Firefox? It's mildly frustrating that they block users for dumb reasons. (Again, I'm not blocking ads). But it's only a mil…

They are probably detecting that some ad/tracking cookies are not being set... because by default in FF tracking protection is enabled.

It's only enabled by default in Private Browsing. And it doesn't actively block cookies (they obviously do get cleared at the end of your Private Browsing session, though).

Re: Is it worth supporting Firefox?

#203

Post by magduf »

sowbug wrote: post #194
magduf wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So the site's owners and employees should work for you for free because you're giving them exposure. Yes, they probably should. It works in the retail world. Shop owners are usually happy to have non-paying customers in their store, and restaurant owners usually happy to have low-paying customers (i.e. they don't buy very much), to make sure their establishment "looks busy". Having a store or eatery with few or no c…

> Yes, they probably should. Until internet publishers reach that conclusion themselves, is it OK to force a different business model on them? To be clear, that "business model" is "I don't like the form of payment this business is asking for, so I'll take the merchandise for free instead." When a business has high prices or a poor experience, it's customary to shop elsewhere, not to raid the store.

Yes, it is OK. It's my computer, and I can run whatever code I want to on it. If I want to run an ad-blocker, that's my business.

If the store doesn't want to give merchandise away for free, then they should stop doing that. When I make an HTTP request, it's just that: a request. Their server can either respond with the page, or not (or a different page). It's my business what I do with the code that the server sends me.

>When a business has high prices or a poor experience, it's customary to shop elsewhere, not to raid the store.

Poor analogy. These websites aren't actually selling you stuff, they're giving away stuff for free, and hoping you'll look at the ads.

If I go into a store that's handing out free samples along with a stack of paper advertisements to look at, and I take some samples and decline to take the ads (or I promptly drop the ads into the trash can), that's the store's problem, not mine. I have no obligation to look at their ads. It's the business's responsibility to come up with a workable business model.

Re: Is it worth supporting Firefox?

#204

Post by thebouv »

Arr0wH34D wrote: post #134

They also opened an interesting issue on Brave browser: https://github.com/brave/browser-laptop/issues/14041 Looks like their feature detection is based on user agent, and they are angry at Brave for using an user agent that resemble the one Chrome is using.

Oh, the issue has devolved into threats against Brave now by FineHub.

https://github.com/brave/browser-laptop/issues/14041

Re: Is it worth supporting Firefox?

#205

Post by dorgo »

inetknght wrote: post #170
jiveturkey wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it’s not just about as cheap as possible. ads are free.

Ads are not free. They cost users in bandwidth, device battery, and website usability.

forget all this. They steal my attention/time which is an orders of magnitude greater offense.

Re: Is it worth supporting Firefox?

#206

Post by Net-effects »

Like in a Comic, 'seeking minimising differences'-user: But buying/downloading runs in browsers - so the browser is like a shopping mall and the net-effect (of internet shopping) is: 'dying inner city shops, franchise shops, empty shopping malls...-but wait it happens in your community, hey! - abstract yourself (-;

Re: Is it worth supporting Firefox?

#207

Post by [deleted] »

Sylos wrote: post #199
chrisseaton wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It literally says > Manager says that we should just discourage the users of Firefox (not optimizing for Firefox, and poor UI) from visiting our website as they bring a loss.

How can they actively bring a loss, though? Does the power and bandwidth needed to have the server serve Firefox users cost more than Firefox users bring in over all?

[deleted]

Re: Is it worth supporting Firefox?

#208

Post by onyva »

I agree with the comment above. Most of the sites that exist to drive revenue from traffic (content farms and such) are essentially dispensable. If they don’t work I won’t be back. If it’s a service, there will always be a competitor. The only one getting screwed here is the business not taking care to support all would be customers.

Re: Is it worth supporting Firefox?

#209

Post by syntheticnature »

sowbug wrote: post #92
syntheticnature wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on whether you share the links to others who run without ad blocking in place.

So the site's owners and employees should work for you for free because you're giving them exposure. https://www.reddit.com/r/choosingbeggars would enjoy discussing that proposition.

This sort of exposure is not the same as "working for exposure" discussed for artists; the ad-blocking visitor is not taking sole possession of the work, though they are consuming some site resources to read it. The other comment's point about ad-blocked folks being ad-blocked is much tighter on the issues.

If, for a random example since it's the one coming to mind, Marco Arment runs with an ad blocker (which he almost certainly does because he developed an early one for iOS) do you want him linking your piece? Unless you are one of the biggest news sites, you probably do. You might even be happy even if he linked it entirely to savage it.

On the other hand, do you want me? Probably not, I don't have that much reach.

Problem is figuring out who you've got, and even whether they're likely to offer that.

Re: Is it worth supporting Firefox?

#210

Post by inetknght »

dorgo wrote: post #205
inetknght wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads are not free. They cost users in bandwidth, device battery, and website usability.

forget all this. They steal my attention/time which is an orders of magnitude greater offense.

I count that as part of website usability, but you are not wrong to point out it is the most egregious offense of ads whether or not they're "intrusive"
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