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NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

reuters.com

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Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#311

Post by marcosdumay »

chii wrote: post #280
coldtea wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the syntactic structure makes it pretty clear that "they" refers to the voters.

i think i was unclear in what i meant - who are the people telling the voters what to do?

I think it's patently clear who is telling the voters how to vote. People usually call those by "the media" or something like that.

It is also clear who is telling the media what to say.

The one thing that is not clear at all is how much the media actually influence voters. I don't think there's as much influence as the OP was trying to convey, but well, as I said, this is not clear.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#312

Post by u801e »

fulafel wrote: post #244
jMyles wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whom are they protecting? Cause it sure is not the average citizen. But was there ever any indication to the contrary? How did we as Americans convert to the myth that our government, let alone our "intelligence" agencies, have any inclination to protect us or advance our interests? That has never been their practice ever. Our government spent the better part of a century not only allowing 3.5 million of us to live…

I think this is attributing too much agency to "government". Voters wanted slavery, and so public officials supported it. Voters wanted wars and a surveillance state after 9/11. Etc. (Same goes for the good things that the public sector does, of course) Yes there is inertia and self-perpetuation, like in any organisations, but not overwhelmingly much.

> Voters wanted wars and a surveillance state after 9/11.

It could be argued that voters were manipulated towards that point of view.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#313

Post by [deleted] »

fulafel wrote: post #244
jMyles wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whom are they protecting? Cause it sure is not the average citizen. But was there ever any indication to the contrary? How did we as Americans convert to the myth that our government, let alone our "intelligence" agencies, have any inclination to protect us or advance our interests? That has never been their practice ever. Our government spent the better part of a century not only allowing 3.5 million of us to live…

I think this is attributing too much agency to "government". Voters wanted slavery, and so public officials supported it. Voters wanted wars and a surveillance state after 9/11. Etc. (Same goes for the good things that the public sector does, of course) Yes there is inertia and self-perpetuation, like in any organisations, but not overwhelmingly much.

[deleted]

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#314

Post by anf »

ship_it wrote: post #264
anf wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a call record? Like a single phone call or an SMS? Pinging the tower doesn't count, does it?

Why not? It's perfect way to signal.

nvm, the article mentions it. cell phones check in with the tower while they are on, which is a way to track where someone has taken their cell phone. afaik, there's very limited privacy protections around this in the US because they are considered the business records of the cell company.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#315

Post by randcraw »

reaperducer wrote: post #95
jlgaddis wrote: post #82

500M in all of 2017? Oh, come on! We found out that Verizon -- just Verizon -- was handing over "phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily" in June 2013. 500M might be an official number that they're willing to release but (without any way to prove it, obviously) I'm certain that the REAL number is much, much higher. For an organization who has vowed to "collect it all", it just doesn't seem likely that th…

Maybe it's 500M uniques?

500M calls. The number of unique phones is less.

The real question is what fraction of these calls had both parties inside the US. That's a different category than when one party is external/foreign — that's domestic espionage, which is a violation of law unless pre-authorized by the FISA court. THAT's the number I'd most like to know.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#316

Post by mr_spothawk »

dpwm wrote: post #259
blitmap wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sincerely doubt the argument that dragnet surveillance has no effect. I wish as soon as the information could be de-classified the NSA would publish about attacks it stopped. Doing so can expose sources and methods used to collect the information, so not everything would become known - but it would certainly help to benefit the agency and its credibility in the eyes of the governed. That said, I don't want to live…

> I sincerely doubt the argument that dragnet surveillance has no effect. It almost certainly does. Whilst congress makes some pretty ludicrously predictably bad decisions, there must be some reports of the NSA's effectiveness. It's just whom it benefits that's in doubt. Let's face it: the number of homicides in general absolutely dwarf the maximum potential of terrorist attacks without NSA intervention. I would argu…

i self censor because of dragnet surveillance

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#317

Post by dang »

jochung wrote: post #268
jknoepfler wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I tend to see most ultra-liberal conspiracy babble as nonsense, experience with my own psychology and observation of those around has led me to believe that white male fragility is a real thing. You're being downvoted because people on HN, who are by and large financially secure, well-educated technocrats (like myself!), feel like there's something deeply irritating about your post, whether or not it is stat…

You're right. Just look at all those men telling us they don't feel safe because of what someone wrote, that the work place needs to be more welcoming to them, that being told they're bossy or domineering is insulting, that having to defend themselves in public debate is unacceptable, that they shouldn't be expected to choose between career and family, and that male hygiene products should be paid for by the governme…

We've banned this account for using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's a serious abuse because it destroys the intellectual curiosity this place exists for.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#318

Post by loceng »

trumped wrote: post #164
loceng wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could easily make it be an honest statement by simply having a different three-letter organization collecting the rest.

is that the organization that we don't know exist yet? a 2 letter name might work better... DB

Not sure if you're trying to reference something with suggestion of DB ?

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#319

Post by rhizome »

stickdogg wrote: post #291
rhizome wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing the world in terms of who is "on top" is a big part of the problem.

That said. It is the way the world has always operated. Until one can separate themself from their ego, they will continue to be run by their ego.

As a matter of fact, the world has not "always operated" on Freudian terms, and my understanding is that those terms are essentially the COBOL of psychology by now anyway.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#320

Post by jknoepfler »

dang wrote: post #317
jochung wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. Just look at all those men telling us they don't feel safe because of what someone wrote, that the work place needs to be more welcoming to them, that being told they're bossy or domineering is insulting, that having to defend themselves in public debate is unacceptable, that they shouldn't be expected to choose between career and family, and that male hygiene products should be paid for by the governme…

We've banned this account for using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's a serious abuse because it destroys the intellectual curiosity this place exists for. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

although I genuinely couldn't tell if the responder was being serious, I think it's a shame the account was banned. I respect the decision, but I think it's a mistake to equate incoherence with ideology.

I feel duty-bound to engage patiently with people with whom I disagree, but I understand that this might be inconsistent with the more general goal of running a forum.

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