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NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

reuters.com

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Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#61

Post by scrumption »

mentat wrote: post #55
scrumption wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Like what? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here. Uh, the constant mass shootings that have occurred over the past year wherein, 100% of the time, the perp was already known to police and FBI and had a very public troubling online presence detailing their years of mental instability and virulent racism? >intelligence agencies don't talk about their activities, even their successes, for very good…

So you're saying the NSA isn't spying on Americans effectively enough?

They have not justified the existence of these programs -- if they were efficacious they would still be wrong, in my opinion, but luckily for me my opinion never has to enter into it because as it stands it's just a double whammy of a 1) massively unethical 2) giant waste of money.

So yeah, even if #2 wasn't in play I'd still be against it.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#63

Post by BookmarkSaver »

maybeiambatman wrote: post #56
BookmarkSaver wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even know where to begin, there are just so many logical fallacies and complete misunderstandings in what you've said that the best I can recommend is for you to just not bother thinking about this stuff at all. It does no one any good.

What a horrendously condescending reply. If you want to do any one any good, the least you can do is elaborate.

What is the expectation here? The commenter has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. The arguments are being made are clearly without any understanding of how any intelligence agency operates, and absolute ignorance of the NSA's mandate, much less any actual data about its activities.

It's like reading a post by someone bitching about the modern Hollywood blockbuster culture by citing Superman's plot arc in the new Avengers movie, except that somehow it isn't a trolling attempt. What sort of attention does that blatant misconception and willful ignorance deserve?

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#64

Post by ams6110 »

outside2344 wrote: post #9
coralreef wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the people who control 60% of the nations wealth want to do this, all the complaining in the world isn't going to do anything. Can you elaborate on this? Why are the wealthy interested in empowering the NSA?

What he is saying, I think, is that because of Citizens United, money controls our politics at this point and it really doesn't really matter what Joe Smith thinks. We can prove that wrong in November, of course. EDIT: Its true that the democrats are just as bought, but I have faith that they would also appoint a supreme court that would rule the other way as well.

"The money" certainly didn't want Donald Trump elected. So your claim seems disproven by events.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#65

Post by rconti »

BookmarkSaver wrote: post #30
anoncoward778 wrote: post #17

Automatically collecting everyone's cell phone data, has software automatically installed in Smart TV's everywhere, monitors your online footprint (emails, social media[of course]). All those warning from Snowden all those secret software reveals from wikileaks an untold amount of funding from congress with virtually no oversight. And yet tons of bad things keep happening to regular citizens in the US. What exactly d…

>And yet tons of bad things keep happening to regular citizens in the US. Like what? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here. >What exactly does the NSA do? Whom are they protecting? Cause it sure is not the average citizen. ??? Sounds like you know absolutely nothing about espionage. Maybe you are right, but intelligence agencies don't talk about their activities, even their successes, for very goo…

We have not been made (substantially) safer. The trade was not worth it.

A town near me recently installed ANPR license plate readers. Their justification was to catch criminals, particularly those engaging in property crimes which were going unsolved.

Did ANPR help solve some property crimes? Almost certainly.

Were property crimes up significantly prior to the installation of the ANPR readers? No. Are they down significantly after? No.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#66

Post by jMyles »

scrumption wrote: post #38
BookmarkSaver wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And yet tons of bad things keep happening to regular citizens in the US. Like what? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here. >What exactly does the NSA do? Whom are they protecting? Cause it sure is not the average citizen. ??? Sounds like you know absolutely nothing about espionage. Maybe you are right, but intelligence agencies don't talk about their activities, even their successes, for very goo…

>Like what? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here. Uh, the constant mass shootings that have occurred over the past year wherein, 100% of the time, the perp was already known to police and FBI and had a very public troubling online presence detailing their years of mental instability and virulent racism? >intelligence agencies don't talk about their activities, even their successes, for very good…

> Uh, the constant mass shootings

I think your point is sound, but I'm not sure this is the best example. Regular shootings are causing a lot more deaths, although I doubt the NSA has any interest in stopping either one (and of course, their official charge doesn't include either one).

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#67

Post by jMyles »

anoncoward778 wrote: post #17

Automatically collecting everyone's cell phone data, has software automatically installed in Smart TV's everywhere, monitors your online footprint (emails, social media[of course]). All those warning from Snowden all those secret software reveals from wikileaks an untold amount of funding from congress with virtually no oversight. And yet tons of bad things keep happening to regular citizens in the US. What exactly d…

> Whom are they protecting? Cause it sure is not the average citizen.

But was there ever any indication to the contrary? How did we as Americans convert to the myth that our government, let alone our "intelligence" agencies, have any inclination to protect us or advance our interests? That has never been their practice ever.

Our government spent the better part of a century not only allowing 3.5 million of us to live in slavery, but actively facilitating and promoting it. Even after it finally put an end to this practice de jurie, it immediately allowed us to be enslaved as "prisoners", and today 2 million of us are in that situation.

I don't mean to bring up such generic anarchism here, but I think it's sharply relevant when considering questions like, "why do the CIA and NSA behave the way they do?" They were created and charged to do it. It's their job. We can debate about how best to end that job, but I really don't think it's reasonable to suggest that they ever had some high-minded democratic purpose.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#68

Post by scrumption »

BookmarkSaver wrote: post #59
scrumption wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass shootings have tripled since 2011.

This entire thread is proof that people will vehemently spout opinions on topics that they don't even have the slightest understanding of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency Try reading literally just the first paragraph.

Thanks for that reputable source -- but I'm still missing your implication. Do you mean to say that the NSA is primarily concerned with foreign intelligence rather than combating domestic terrorism? Then why so much domestic spying, the entire point of this conversation thread?

Furthermore, are you trying to tell me you think they've done a good job in their counterintelligence work? Honestly, given what we have observed in the Middle East for decades and what happened in 2016?

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#69

Post by BookmarkSaver »

hmyr wrote: post #60
BookmarkSaver wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even know where to begin, there are just so many logical fallacies and complete misunderstandings in what you've said that the best I can recommend is for you to just not bother thinking about this stuff at all. It does no one any good.

All of your "arguments" so far have been nothing but "you have no idea what you're talking about" and "you know nothing". Why not contribute some facts and rational arguments to the discussion?

Domestic mass shootings are no where even close to the NSA's mandate.

Intelligence agencies DO NOT trumpet triumphs.

The NSA is not the FBI.

There's no arguments to be made here, there's just ignorance of incontrovertible and uncontroversial facts which can be easily looked up.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#70

Post by scrumption »

jMyles wrote: post #66
scrumption wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Like what? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here. Uh, the constant mass shootings that have occurred over the past year wherein, 100% of the time, the perp was already known to police and FBI and had a very public troubling online presence detailing their years of mental instability and virulent racism? >intelligence agencies don't talk about their activities, even their successes, for very good…

> Uh, the constant mass shootings I think your point is sound, but I'm not sure this is the best example. Regular shootings are causing a lot more deaths, although I doubt the NSA has any interest in stopping either one (and of course, their official charge doesn't include either one).

Right, but what else is the NSA ostensibly carrying out all this domestic espionage for if not to preempt domestic terrorism (which by and large has been dominated by mass shootings in recent years, it's been a bit since we had e.g. a bombing), which by all accounts is at its highest point in recent memory?
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