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Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

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Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#651

Post by astrange »

isostatic wrote: post #556
nostrademons wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a "crisis" in the way the Bay Area is, where there is barely any inventory even if you're a double-Googler household, 3BR homes on 1/4 acre go for $2.5M, and if you're a teacher or other non-tech job you're either living with roommates or have an hour and a half commute. However, Portland/Boulder/Denver/Austin have all seen large increases in house prices, driven largely by Californian housing wealth finding…

1/4 acre is a large amount for a 3 bedroom house - where I live in the UK a typical plot size in a semi-rural area, from the 70s is about 1/10th acre, for new houses it's about half that. The best solution to high demand is a land value tax. That applies not just to houses, but to offices, shops, parking lots, etc. This means that land owners have to use their land efficently. If parking triples in cost, so be it. If…

You’re welcome to try passing one in California. It’s unconstitutional and most people with appreciated home values can’t afford to pay it.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#652

Post by WiseWeasel »

coldtea wrote: post #647
WiseWeasel wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I nodded along with your exasperation at the parent poster's (father's) demonstration of bias, you can't compare long-distance public transportation infrastructure in places with the population densities and growth rates of Germany and California, two extremes in that sense. California has 1/5 more area, with half the population, and that population has almost doubled over the last 35 years, versus a few %…

> you can't compare long-distance public transportation infrastructure in places with the population densities and growth rates of Germany and California You very much can. Parent didn't ask Californians to build infrastructure in Yosemite or the Death Valley. Heck, not even in Bakersfield. How's that L.A, San Diego, and San Francisco public transportation infrastructure? Places that, if anything, have more populatio…

The US mostly relies on air travel, and it's not too inconvenient if you can avoid major hubs like SFO and LAX. The population of those metropolitan areas isn't the problem; it's the distance, as well as the lower demand for travel between them. California is also more seismically active. You can build a passenger HSR system in California, but the cost/benefit is going to be worse than somewhere like Germany.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#653

Post by simonbarker87 »

ng12 wrote: post #633
simonbarker87 wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I both have PhDs in electronics (her’s was 50% neuroscience) I have run a successful business for 7 years and she works for a high end car manufacturer in electrical design as a manager, both are native UK. We can get a permenant residency Canada visa straight off the bat without a job offer (quicker with a job offer though granted). We can’t work out how to get a US visa for love nor money and have basic…

Yeah, that's the point. If you're wealthy, highly employable, and culturally compatible it's easy. Everyone else gets a big fat "no". Trump's gotten flack for suggesting the USA do the same.

> If you're wealthy, highly employable, and culturally compatible it's easy. Everyone else gets a big fat "no".

From what I can US the US still says no even if you meet the above criteria.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#654

Post by toto123456 »

okatsu wrote: post #616
Sytten wrote: post #588

I'm also from Canada, but I have a very different experience from the other posts. I live in Quebec and speaking french as a primary language. I am still a CS student, but from what I have seen (I am involved a lot with other universities) the retention rate in Quebec is much higher. Only a minority is leaving Quebec for internships or jobs later on. Even if most of us speak perfectly fine english the culture is very…

I'm in QC as well and was lucky enough to land a 65k job right out of school, so it was awkward to see my classmates not only accepting 45-50k salaries but also trying to rationalize them. I think you might be right about the taboo. But otherwise I love Montreal. My salary today is definitely peanuts compared to SV but I live comfortably here and I saved way more than 12k during school thanks to internships and the l…

I'm in Qc too, in Québec city. May I ask what language do you guys use ? Thanks.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#655

Post by mattmcknight »

econochoice wrote: post #643
adventured wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like if they fail or lost their job they would just die, poor and homeless and healthcare-less Poor people get free healthcare in the US. I'm not sure how you could not know that after decades of that being the case. Medicaid has existed since 1965. Not only has it broadened out considerably, today there is also CHIP and SS disability to further supplement that along with countless smaller programs. Just Medicaid +…

Before Medicaid expansion, Medicaid was strictly for disabled populations under the age of 65 and below a certain income. After Medicaid expansion, Medicaid is offered to those with an income of below ~130% of the federal poverty line: roughly $16k a year for an individual. I think we'd both agree that $16k/yr is abjectly poor, and those making even 50% more than that are still very poor. However, only 33 states have…

You are incorrect. Medicaid is not and was not strictly for "disabled populations". Are you thinking of SSI?

Over 67 million people are enrolled in Medicaid, over 6 million are in CHIP. That's over 22% of the population.

Your definition of objectively poor is suspect, because the cost of living varies so widely across the US.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#656

Post by mickyc33 »

I am a Canadian who works at an 80 person Toronto based software company. Canada, and Toronto have a lot they can learn from the Bay Area tech scene when it comes to tech entrepreneurialism. It is definitely true that Canadian culture tends to be more cautious with things like money and risk, and there are certainly small c conservative currents embedded in the culture here. That being said, I would suggest that there are things that can make the Canadian/Toronto tech scene attractive that Silicon Valley lacks.

I have visited San Francisco a number of times, I have good friends who live there and my job is connected to the San Francisco tech scene. San Francisco is a very attractive place for young ambitious folks who want to dive head first into the tech world and work with very talented people, get compensated well, and further their career. It makes perfect sense to me that so many young folks with software engineering backgrounds would flock to Northern California to be a part of this. Frankly, my own decision to switch from marketing into software development was motivated by a vacation to San Francisco seven years ago (I'm now 34). At that time, if I had the means to move to San Francisco and work for a tech startup I would have done it in a heartbeat. San Francisco is the best place in the world to start a tech company with global ambitions. Getting to be a part of something like that is a wonderful experience.

All of that being said, I do not think that the ethos of completely immersing yourself in your work and being singularly driven towards professional success that is prominent in Silicon Valley is necessarily for everyone, or satisfying throughout all phases of an individual's life. I think in Canada (specifically in Toronto), in the tech industry people tend to work less hours than in San Francisco, giving themselves more time for other things in their life: non-work friends, family, non-work activities etc. In addition to this, the tech community within Toronto (much like New York) is situated within a larger city with a diverse set of industries. Friends of mine work in film, media companies, not for profits, finance, etc. Amongst the people I know in the San Francisco tech world it seems to be quite common for people's social lives to revolve around their jobs and to have a significant portion of their friends be either from their work or work at venture backed tech companies like they do. I personally think there is a lot of value to be gained from social connection with people who are different from you or who at least work on very different types of challenges to the ones you work on.

All of this to say, I think Toronto can learn a ton from the SF tech community, but places like Toronto have some things going for it that SF doesn't necessarily excel at.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#657

Post by astrange »

hello_moto wrote: post #542
trhway wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sunnyvale (current ground zero of Apple) median is close to 2M - that is only 5x of $400K which a lot of FANG and other engineers pull yearly (and that is the main reason for current SV home prices as, during such low mortgage rates, the market is naturally self-adjusting to 5-6x of prevalent salaries. In 2008 those houses were $700-800K+ - the 5-6x of those $120K-150K salaries back then).

FANG engineers pull $400k WITH RSUs. Base+Bonus won't be that high. And ... guess what... Bank uses Base (no bonus, no RSUs) to calculate your mortgage.

If you made $400k a year I think you can convince a private banker to do something with them.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#658

Post by wiha »

WiseWeasel wrote: post #652
coldtea wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't compare long-distance public transportation infrastructure in places with the population densities and growth rates of Germany and California You very much can. Parent didn't ask Californians to build infrastructure in Yosemite or the Death Valley. Heck, not even in Bakersfield. How's that L.A, San Diego, and San Francisco public transportation infrastructure? Places that, if anything, have more populatio…

The US mostly relies on air travel, and it's not too inconvenient if you can avoid major hubs like SFO and LAX. The population of those metropolitan areas isn't the problem; it's the distance, as well as the lower demand for travel between them. California is also more seismically active. You can build a passenger HSR system in California, but the cost/benefit is going to be worse than somewhere like Germany.

Distance wouldn't be much of a problem. It isn't much longer than Paris - Frankfurt. Chinese trains cover the distance in 2 hours. It would work from a European perspective, but Europe built most of its networks decades ago. The Chinese aren't just building train lines, they are building entire regions.

Everyone complains how few things can be built in SF or LA, but suddenly having a lot of space available is something negative? Californians have a dream scenario on their hands as the high cost of construction can relatively soon be offset by the huge gains in capturing the global tech market. Something that will pay off for a century. And they should have the money to do it. It is probably one of the best infrastructure investments available anywhere.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#659

Post by t1o5 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #642
t1o5 wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no further interest in taking this conversation forward. I immigrated to Canada on Express Entry in which I got points based on my skills and that too within 3 months. I feel for my colleagues in Quebec whose applications are on hold in Quebec with no explanation from MIDI for the past one year. If you start asking cites for all these from official source which is MIDI, I can't give you because MIDI don't have…

I would appreciate the previous poster replying, as I believe his points will prove enlightening to this thread.

In that case here are official links. Please note that Canadian permanent residency thru Quebec is a long two stage process. First obtain a CSQ document from Quebec and then apply to Federal (in paper format) which will grant you permanent residency.

* Processing delays as per MIDI's site for obtaining a CSQ:

Official Source: https://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/immigrate-settl...

* MIDI currently follows FCFS to issue CSQ, not point based merit system, which they are planning to implement soon.

" With the introduction of the new immigration system based on the declaration of interest, only candidates that meet the needs of Québec will be invited to submit an application for a selection certificate. This new system will make it possible to put an end to the principle of first come first serve, currently in effect for processing applications, and to considerably reduced average processing times. "

Official Source: https://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/informations/ne...

* Federal processing time delays(after obtaining a CSQ) for residency from Quebec: 15 months & counting.

Official Source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/index.asp

( Select Economic Class > Skilled workers Quebec ,the processing times shows as 15 months.)

* For the year 2017, the processing time for applications for a selection certificate under the Regular Skilled Worker Program was 32 months.

Official Source: https://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/informations/ne...

* To summarize, an immigration application thru Regular Skilled worker stream will take 15 + 32 months to complete if it goes without any glitches, but MIDI is plagued with operational issues such as loss of applicant documents, huge technical problems with Mon Projet and the recent refugee situation.

Official Source: https://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/informations/ne...

Now if anyone applies in PEQ category, you will still be delayed by 15 months in Federal stage.

So which graduate or skilled worker worth their salt will try to immigrate or stay in Quebec after graduation ? They can easily get their permanent residency within months if they move to any other province other than Quebec through the Express Entry system and other provincial nomination programs.

Why do I say all this ? Because Quebec's immigration system is so obsolete that it doesn't give importance for merit. I was a victim of the broken H1B visa system and I immigrated to Canada thru Express Entry which gave importance to my skills. How I did it might be interesting too -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15452647

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#660

Post by stale2002 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #366
pm90 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's what they usually say, but they also usually oppose policy which would make legal immigration easier and relieve pressure that creates illegal immigration, and frequently support policies to restrict legal immigration. And it's not just 10% of conservatives supporting this kind of policy. Look, I'm a liberal but I will call out the Dems when I need to. Most of the reforms to legal immigration have always bee…

> Democrats haven't proposed a bill which purely targets legal immigration. Perhaps, but conservatives have frequently put forward bills (or, when in the executive, instituted executive policy without Congressional action) that further restrict currently-legal immigration and non-immigrant entry and privileges, which is more significant sign of opposition to legal immigration than merely voting against expansions to…

They have also frequently put forward bills that would relax restictions, and allow more HIGH SKILLED labor to come into the country.

Go look up the stuff that Orin Hatch and Rubio sponsored with regards to H1B visas. The stuff that they sponsored would double the number of H1Bs and was majority sponsored by republicans.

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