The rise of the pointless job • Hacker News Board

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#361

Post by has2k1 » Sat, May 05, 2018, 10:26 AM UTC

poulsbohemian wrote: post #137

lainga wrote: post #15

I have said this before, but I see some parallels between the modern world and Japan during the early Tokugawa era. Japan had pretty much reached a steady state by the time Tokugawa Iyeyasu came to power in 1600; most of the available land had been cultivated or settled, and, especially after the policies of Toyotomi Hideyoshi, society was locked in a rigid structure without much room for advancement or unrest. As a…

This is very similar to the situation that caused the Swiss to become the mercenaries of Europe. If you were the second son, you weren't going to inherit the farm and thus in a resource-poor country like Switzerland of the Middle Ages, your best choice was to go abroad and find some feudal lord putting together an army. Thus you became a "freelance" and hopefully found riches. I've always thought Machiavelli's dislik…

> Machiavelli's dislike of mercenaries was poorly placed, as after all they were simply following the economic incentives.

That is part of the reason he did not like them, their loyalty was bought and the "prince" who used them did not have any other leverage. It is difficult to win and then govern with mercenaries as the protectors of the kingdom. A long standing mercenary army does not convey legitimacy, and when disbanded there are issues of proper resettlement and worry about a rival acquiring their service.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#362

Post by amelius » Sat, May 05, 2018, 10:32 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #356

amelius wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of zoning out, why not work on a cool side-project?

The IP ownership can sometimes be a bit confusing.

Why even tell them? I bet in many cases it's easier to hide working on a side-project than to hide reading & posting comments to HN.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#363

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 05, 2018, 10:43 AM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #360

Goons are only pointless, if you look at them from a idealistic all-humanity-together approach. And even though they tell us often they are there because of the other goons... they are usually there to dominate(or exploite) the others. Which gives the own side a massive advantage. Even though it mostly happens today in a much more subtle way than the open conquering, stealing and blundering, of the past, it is mostly…

[deleted]

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#364

Post by Balero » Sat, May 05, 2018, 10:47 AM UTC

ytwySXpMbS wrote: post #313

Thlom wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always a bit taken back when visiting the toilet at clubs and some restaurants when I'm in the UK as there's a gentleman sitting by the sink handing out towels and stuff. Very strange and utterly useless. Not sure if he's paid by the club or lives of tip, but it makes me really uncomfortable. I just want to take a piss and wash my hands, not have an awkward conversation with a towel handler.

I've never seen this in my life in the UK. There is a guy watching over the people in the toilets in the clubs near me, but you don't talk to him and he doesn't hand you anything. Even if he did hand you something, you don't have to have a conversation with him.

Really? Just about every club I've ever been in has this. Selling chewing gum, after shave ("no spray, no lay" etc). But they are there mainly to make sure people aren't doing drugs, or fall asleep on the toilet.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#365

Post by billfruit » Sat, May 05, 2018, 10:51 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #355

expensivedrone wrote: post #80

I'm a programmer working at a big-tech company. I make ~$350k/year, even though my job could be done equally well by a college intern. I only do ~2 hours of productive work in an average day. My previous jobs were far more interesting and challenging, and I had apparently done extremely well in my interviews. Hence why I got an offer with an extremely good compensation package. However, the team that I go put into, i…

Instead of zoning out, why not work on a cool side-project?

Ethically slightly problematic to work on some side project, than in doing creative time wasting.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#366

Post by vfc1 » Sat, May 05, 2018, 10:59 AM UTC

This is true, I've seen this over the years in several corporate jobs, typically in large companies. Teams are overstaffed, and each person ends up not having much to do.

Managers keep the team size high because it's not their money to spend, and they prefer being a team lead of 5 persons instead of 2, looks better on the CV.

People spend their day in their desktop trying to invent things to do, looking busy, surfing the web discretely, waiting for the clock to hit 6 oclock.

Then something "urgent" comes around that needs to be done for tomorrow, and you stay in the office until 9 to finish it. The software gets delivered, but its not deployed until 3 months down the line, and the users hardly use the application at all.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#367

Post by walshemj » Sat, May 05, 2018, 11:17 AM UTC

dragandj wrote: post #345

walshemj wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Machiavelli's was worried that the mercs would take over. Which is effectively happened in India princes and kings hiring foreign mercs from France and Britain. Another example is the Janissaries in turkey.

Janissaries were slave-warriors rather than mercenaries, though.

true though they did later on wield massive power

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#368

Post by tom_mellior » Sat, May 05, 2018, 11:27 AM UTC

lallysingh wrote: post #301

tom_mellior wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Eight hours of soul-crushing boredom every day keeps people in such jobs from doing... anything they want. Like learning stuff that might help them contribute to society in other ways (in a more useful job, maybe). > Not having a job puts you in a lower social caste This is a stupid societal expectation that should be fought rather than supported in the way you say.

It leaves people lots of time to think of better jobs to get. They are also less likely to go to crime. And they can quit. I mean, a job guarantee isn't directly a requirement in the same sense.

> It leaves people lots of time to think of better jobs to get.

Thinking is a useful skill if and only if the job they aspire to is philosopher. For everything else (and for philosophers as well, really) you need training, and for that you need time.

> And they can quit.

Sure. Anyone can choose to starve.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#369

Post by kleiba » Sat, May 05, 2018, 11:28 AM UTC

ouid wrote: post #263

jopsen wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US you often see people holding a sign saying "slow" next to construction or road work. This is a job that could literally be automated with a pole :)

Those signs say stop on the other side and are used in conjuction with someone on the other end of the construction holding up the opposite sign so that a single lane can be used to handle traffic in two directions. That job would need to be automated with a traffic light.

In Germany, no-one is holding stop/slow signs at any construction site. This job is universally done by portable traffic lights.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#370

Post by esarbe » Sat, May 05, 2018, 11:39 AM UTC

bomb199 wrote: post #222

foamflower wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my family lived in Japan years ago, we noticed that when taking the train, approximately three attendants checked our tickets before we boarded a train. At least two of those jobs are "bullshit" in terms of producing wealth, but they are socially beneficial in a culture where the social contract requires near-zero unemployment. (I, apparently like you, can't help but remember this kind of arrangement when listen…

A Job's Guarantee is a real movement, and a reasonable idea for this reason. Not having a job puts you in a lower social caste - might as well have them doing SOMETHING. Even if it's not especially productive, the small positive affect is better than nothing.

Why not just give people a UBI and be done with it?