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The rise of the pointless job

theguardian.com

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Re: The rise of the pointless job

#271

Post by casefields »

rolandog wrote: post #193
expensivedrone wrote: post #80

I'm a programmer working at a big-tech company. I make ~$350k/year, even though my job could be done equally well by a college intern. I only do ~2 hours of productive work in an average day. My previous jobs were far more interesting and challenging, and I had apparently done extremely well in my interviews. Hence why I got an offer with an extremely good compensation package. However, the team that I go put into, i…

Can we switch places? (Meager salary and doing the work of 4 people).

People like you are the ones making up for incompetent workers and fat cats up top. And the systems rolls on in equilibrium.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#272

Post by posterboy »

closeparen wrote: post #96
mfoy_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I die inside. But any suggestion of "mincome" or the like is met with such a harsh reaction... What, effectively, is the difference between goon-bloom and mincome? Is it just that one is too obviously a subsidy?

Hazing, austerity, and rigor. The military certainly cannot be accused of making soldiers more comfortable than taxpayers, and that’s what they really care about. Whether they’re deployed to economicically productive ends is more of an academic concern. On a gut level, the public needs to feel that they are not paid to be lazy, and the military delivers with overwhelming gusto. Lawyers may similarly be accused of evi…

Lawyers can be horribly lazy.

"let's just wait for a reaction, if we are lucky, nothings gonna come."

"Let's just threaten with outrageous claims instead of making an effort."

"We know the law is wrong but it's easier to roll with it than to fix it or find a way around it."

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#273

Post by pdonis »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #86
mfoy_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I die inside. But any suggestion of "mincome" or the like is met with such a harsh reaction... What, effectively, is the difference between goon-bloom and mincome? Is it just that one is too obviously a subsidy?

I talk to people about changing the world so work is optional, and people are really attached to the idea that everyone should work all the time. Our world is sufficiently productive (a trend I expect to continue rising) that we could offer a modest life to everyone regardless of how much they work. Or more conservatively, we could build a world where everyone has 8 weeks of vacation a year or could take 6 months off…

> Our world is sufficiently productive (a trend I expect to continue rising) that we could offer a modest life to everyone regardless of how much they work.

I don't think this is true, because I think too large a fraction of the world's current productivity is supplied by people who would not produce if they didn't have to to earn a living.

> My vision is for systems of robotics that are totally open source (modifiable and royalty free) that can create the basic goods for survival.

This would fix the productivity problem, yes. But...

> Then groups of people fund corporations with bylaws like a constitution that guarantee rights to shareholders. The machines provide for the people and excess goods are sold to a market to support growth of the community.

This would throw away the whole thing. If there are open source machines that can create the basic goods for survival, the obvious thing to do is for every individual to just own one. There is no need for corporate ownership; in fact, corporate ownership undermines the whole thing, by giving some people an incentive to game the corporate system. If there is no such system, there's nothing to be gamed.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#274

Post by thaumasiotes »

ausvisaissues wrote: post #264
foamflower wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my family lived in Japan years ago, we noticed that when taking the train, approximately three attendants checked our tickets before we boarded a train. At least two of those jobs are "bullshit" in terms of producing wealth, but they are socially beneficial in a culture where the social contract requires near-zero unemployment. (I, apparently like you, can't help but remember this kind of arrangement when listen…

Most gates are automatic now in Japan (with a conductor sometimes checking tickets on Shinkansen after gates). When I was in the US there was a guy handing me a towel in the bathroom. That is an incredibly meaningless and superfluous job!

> When I was in the US there was a guy handing me a towel in the bathroom. That is an incredibly meaningless and superfluous job!

On the other hand, most Americans live their entire lives in the US without ever seeing such a guy. Are you mind-bogglingly rich?

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#275

Post by azernik »

walshemj wrote: post #245
poulsbohemian wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very similar to the situation that caused the Swiss to become the mercenaries of Europe. If you were the second son, you weren't going to inherit the farm and thus in a resource-poor country like Switzerland of the Middle Ages, your best choice was to go abroad and find some feudal lord putting together an army. Thus you became a "freelance" and hopefully found riches. I've always thought Machiavelli's dislik…

I think Machiavelli's was worried that the mercs would take over. Which is effectively happened in India princes and kings hiring foreign mercs from France and Britain. Another example is the Janissaries in turkey.

Machiavelli wasn't just "worried"; he'd seen it be attempted (sometimes successfully). Facino Cane, Vitellozzo Vitelli, and famously Francesco Sforza. (Often this would happen on the death of the previous hereditary ruler, or through taking independent control of territories conquered in an employer's name.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facino_Cane

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitellozzo_Vitelli

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_I_Sforza

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#276

Post by mrfusion »

foamflower wrote: post #77
romanr wrote: post #29

This is another argument in favor of universal income. Bullshit jobs is one of consequences of progress, low cost goods, food and comfort. With increasing automation it’s going to be get incrementally harder to find bullshit jobs for people. until society understands that not everyone can and have to be employed.

The opposite is true. At some point in the past, elevator operators served a useful function, since elevators were hard to operate. Today, even the existence of automation (i.e. accessible elevator UI) has not completely driven the elevator operator extinct, but has transmuted his job into bullshit. Same goes for gas pump improvements (I suppose we can thank New Jersey and until recently Oregon). The entire "Flunkies…

Why until recently for Oregon?

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#278

Post by throw_away »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #274
ausvisaissues wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most gates are automatic now in Japan (with a conductor sometimes checking tickets on Shinkansen after gates). When I was in the US there was a guy handing me a towel in the bathroom. That is an incredibly meaningless and superfluous job!

> When I was in the US there was a guy handing me a towel in the bathroom. That is an incredibly meaningless and superfluous job! On the other hand, most Americans live their entire lives in the US without ever seeing such a guy. Are you mind-bogglingly rich?

You too may experience this "luxury" by going to pretty much any club (dance or strip) on pretty much any weekend in pretty much any major US city. The opulence wears off quickly, as it is made clear that you're expected to tip and all you want to do is wash your hands like a decent person.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#279

Post by fencepost »

derivagral wrote: post #161
mrfusion wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do you get your skills back?

For me, its been about rekindling the desire to make/do things and hack around like I used to love doing, instead of twitch, HN, tv, etc.

Seems to me that you might be able to keep the twitch part of that, but as a creator rather than a consumer. Sometimes having an audience might make a difference, and sometimes it'll be of interest to others (e.g. Wintergatan Wednesdays on YouTube)

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#280

Post by michaelbuckbee »

ctime wrote: post #228
WJW wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is visited the USA just once (in 2003), but there was an old man that took my bag off the end of the luggage belt at the airport and handed it to me. I could easily have picked it up myself, but he was there for those 30 centimeters of bag travel. I remember being amazed about it and remarking the pointlessness of that job to my coworkers.

I've never once seen this in my life (I typically have over 100k miles of airline travel per year) and have been traveling for work in the US since 2000. I don't understand how this scenario would play out, does he just grab a bag at random and hold it over his head? Read off the tag? Most people I know would be incensed if someone else were to grab their bag off the luggage belt. You might be confusing this with cur…

It's something that has disappeared over time (like elevator attendants). If I had to guess it was a holdover from before there were actually conveyor belts and porters manually pushed out cards of luggage to stops and helped people with them.
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