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The rise of the pointless job

theguardian.com

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Re: The rise of the pointless job

#161

Post by derivagral »

mrfusion wrote: post #145
basejumping wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be so happy about it. I'm like you but 5 years in the future when it's time to look for a new job. At the beginning I was keeping my skills sharp, but after a while you become lazy. Especially when you see everyone around you not doing anything you sort of lose your motivation to do work.

So how do you get your skills back?

For me, its been about rekindling the desire to make/do things and hack around like I used to love doing, instead of twitch, HN, tv, etc.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#162

Post by bamboozled »

foamflower wrote: post #83
lainga wrote: post #15

I have said this before, but I see some parallels between the modern world and Japan during the early Tokugawa era. Japan had pretty much reached a steady state by the time Tokugawa Iyeyasu came to power in 1600; most of the available land had been cultivated or settled, and, especially after the policies of Toyotomi Hideyoshi, society was locked in a rigid structure without much room for advancement or unrest. As a…

When my family lived in Japan years ago, we noticed that when taking the train, approximately three attendants checked our tickets before we boarded a train. At least two of those jobs are "bullshit" in terms of producing wealth, but they are socially beneficial in a culture where the social contract requires near-zero unemployment. (I, apparently like you, can't help but remember this kind of arrangement when listen…

Never noticed this, visited Japan a few times myself. Often I had mine checked at the gate and on the train. Are you sure you’re not just exaggerating?

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#164

Post by musage »

almost_usual wrote: post #81
tlb wrote: post #19

The goon category is interesting in a future world where AI has replaced most jobs, because it can employ an unlimited number of people. (Goon jobs exist to counterbalance other goon jobs. Militaries are the canonical example.) Most jobs -- teachers, auto workers, plumbers, farmers -- have a natural ceiling on employment related to demand, but goon jobs don't because when one side hires more goons, the other side has…

I think it's interesting this category is simply defined as "goon". This really has been the definition of our entire existence as a species. We have competitors and if they take our resources we attempt to kill them off. Even today the military encompasses the largest industry in the world. All of the technology we use has been rooted in the Military. Engineering Departments everywhere are subsidized by the Military…

humans came this far by cooperating and sharing in harsh environments just as much if not more more so by than fighting each other.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#165

Post by bitL »

PeterisP wrote: post #105
mfoy_ wrote: post #27

Keynes was a little more direct: "The government should pay people to dig holes in the ground and then fill them up."

However, digging a hole in the ground and then filling it up is horribly, soul crushingly demotivating. Even if someone is working in a job that de facto amounts to doing just that, it should be covered up so that this fact isn't obvious and that a person can reasonably choose to ignore the truth and convince themselves that their job has some real value. Which is actually done, all kinds of internal propaganda, glor…

> digging a hole in the ground and then filling it up is horribly, soul crushingly demotivating.

Europe can start reconstructing all the ruins of castles, monasteries and cathedrals; for example Napoleon destroyed quite a lot of them and most didn't recover. Or just tear down all the ugly buildings built between 50s-70s when architects were out of whack like some German cities are doing right now (Frankfurt) and replace them with some 3D printed aesthetically pleasing ones. Should be a plenty of work and those jobs could be opposite of soul crushing.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#166

Post by tonyedgecombe »

mfoy_ wrote: post #27

Keynes was a little more direct: "The government should pay people to dig holes in the ground and then fill them up."

Actually that is pretty much what we do, all the oil, coal, ore, etc dug up and turned into products that eventually end up in landfill.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#167

Post by bitL »

sametmax wrote: post #130
mentalpiracy wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, digging a hole in the ground and then filling it up is horribly, soul crushingly demotivating. Ah you see, this is why you have one person doing the digging, and another doing the filling! This way, each man goes home satisfied.

This is not only clever, but actually a good metaphor of the activity of numerous entities.

One company does the digging, another the filling, and they are both owned by the same person in order to conceal that.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#168

Post by megaman22 »

PeterisP wrote: post #105
mfoy_ wrote: post #27

Keynes was a little more direct: "The government should pay people to dig holes in the ground and then fill them up."

However, digging a hole in the ground and then filling it up is horribly, soul crushingly demotivating. Even if someone is working in a job that de facto amounts to doing just that, it should be covered up so that this fact isn't obvious and that a person can reasonably choose to ignore the truth and convince themselves that their job has some real value. Which is actually done, all kinds of internal propaganda, glor…

We've got a lot of holes that need to be dug anyway. The state of infrastructure in the US is pretty deplorable in some places. You could keep a few million people busy rebuilding roads and bridges that are crumbling away - more if you leaned on manpower instead of machinery.

I'd like to see something like a reincarnation of the CCC. There's so much relatively unskilled labor out there that goes undone.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#169

Post by dragonwriter »

PeterisP wrote: post #105
mfoy_ wrote: post #27

Keynes was a little more direct: "The government should pay people to dig holes in the ground and then fill them up."

However, digging a hole in the ground and then filling it up is horribly, soul crushingly demotivating. Even if someone is working in a job that de facto amounts to doing just that, it should be covered up so that this fact isn't obvious and that a person can reasonably choose to ignore the truth and convince themselves that their job has some real value. Which is actually done, all kinds of internal propaganda, glor…

> However, digging a hole in the ground and then filling it up is horribly, soul crushingly demotivating.

Further, being forced to spend time doing that makes it much harder to gain skills for, or search for, another job.

Make-work non-training jobs (though ideally real beneficial work that just has market value less than what is paid by government for it rather than obvious waste of effort) may be a same policy solution to short-term private sector dislocation where demand for work with basically-similar skill profile has dropped but is expected to rebound, but beyond that it is fairly obvious counterproductive and a trap that impedes the ability of a labor force to adapt to new needs compared to conventional means-tested welfare, which itself is not very good at that (which is one of the motivations for UBI.)

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#170

Post by 2RTZZSro »

bamboozled wrote: post #162
foamflower wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my family lived in Japan years ago, we noticed that when taking the train, approximately three attendants checked our tickets before we boarded a train. At least two of those jobs are "bullshit" in terms of producing wealth, but they are socially beneficial in a culture where the social contract requires near-zero unemployment. (I, apparently like you, can't help but remember this kind of arrangement when listen…

Never noticed this, visited Japan a few times myself. Often I had mine checked at the gate and on the train. Are you sure you’re not just exaggerating?

Keep an eye out for people guiding traffic in Tokyo. It's much more than in Europe
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