NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report • Hacker News Board

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#91

Post by 21 » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:31 PM UTC

ModernMech wrote: post #74

ataturk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not the only one. What hurts the most for me is that I wrote my doctoral thesis on privacy back in 2003 and I touched on a number of these issues. 9/11 ruined my career, though. After 9/11, nobody wanted privacy or to even talk about privacy. I knew all this was going to happen. David Brin knew all this was going to happen, and so did a lot of other writers and pundits. And here we sit now, wondering what to d…

> After 9/11, nobody wanted privacy or to even talk about privacy. Yup! And not only did the NSA turn into a monster, but so did the TSA (or more aptly, that monster was created), the biggest theatre troupe on the planet, because that's all it is. The most eye opening thing happened just recently to cement this in my mind. After the Superbowl parade in Philadelphia this year, I caught a ride from PHL to SFO. Basicall…

> So let me get this straight. For years, I've been disrobing in public and subjecting myself to groping on the off-chance that someone might have a bomb tucked under their scrotum, yet on the BUSIEST DAY EVER it's okay to throw all those security protocols out the window.... why??

I get your point, but you are making a logical mistake here.

If a building shuts down it's fire warning systems and blocks the fire exits for a week because of some construction work, that doesn't mean that they should just be removed because obviously they are not needed.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#92

Post by joering2 » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:32 PM UTC

21 wrote: post #85

anoncoward778 wrote: post #17

Automatically collecting everyone's cell phone data, has software automatically installed in Smart TV's everywhere, monitors your online footprint (emails, social media[of course]). All those warning from Snowden all those secret software reveals from wikileaks an untold amount of funding from congress with virtually no oversight. And yet tons of bad things keep happening to regular citizens in the US. What exactly d…

For a second I thought you were talking about Google. Food for thought.

CIA founded Google, for one. An apple doesn't fall far from a tree.

https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-ci...

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#93

Post by jMyles » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:34 PM UTC

ModernMech wrote: post #83

jMyles wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I mean I'm with you, but again: the NSA is not charged with preventing domestic crimes. It's a foreign intelligence agency.

You two are talking past each other. Yes, the NSA is a foreign intelligence agency. But then why is it spying on citizens? Ostensibly to prevent bad things from happening. Yet bad things are happening, that could presumably be stopped with information gained from said spying. But no one is using the information that way. So why should we let them continue spying? I think that sums it up.

I think there's another sliver to be added, though, because the NSA can still give the excuse that the answer to

> why is it spying on citizens

...is that it's doing that to prevent foreign attacks, not eg. mass shootings.

Furthermore, even if it were doing anything useful with its domestic spying, such as preventing domestic crime, obviously we'd all rather address plain ole' shootings, which take many more lives than mass shootings.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#94

Post by jlgaddis » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:34 PM UTC

wybiral wrote: post #46

BookmarkSaver wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And yet tons of bad things keep happening to regular citizens in the US. Like what? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here. >What exactly does the NSA do? Whom are they protecting? Cause it sure is not the average citizen. ??? Sounds like you know absolutely nothing about espionage. Maybe you are right, but intelligence agencies don't talk about their activities, even their successes, for very goo…

These people seem to think that the NSA is only collecting data to stop mass shootings and normal crimes. The concept of using this data to stamp out more systematic terrorism, espionage and other nation state attacks doesn't occur to them.

How does keeping tabs on every phone call my ~85-year-old grandmother makes help keep the country secure?

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#95

Post by reaperducer » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:35 PM UTC

jlgaddis wrote: post #82

500M in all of 2017? Oh, come on! We found out that Verizon -- just Verizon -- was handing over "phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily" in June 2013. 500M might be an official number that they're willing to release but (without any way to prove it, obviously) I'm certain that the REAL number is much, much higher. For an organization who has vowed to "collect it all", it just doesn't seem likely that th…

Maybe it's 500M uniques?

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#96

Post by mc32 » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:36 PM UTC

anoncoward778 wrote: post #17

Automatically collecting everyone's cell phone data, has software automatically installed in Smart TV's everywhere, monitors your online footprint (emails, social media[of course]). All those warning from Snowden all those secret software reveals from wikileaks an untold amount of funding from congress with virtually no oversight. And yet tons of bad things keep happening to regular citizens in the US. What exactly d…

And not only agency vs civilians but apparently the agency vs politicians in all areas of govt.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#97

Post by joering2 » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:37 PM UTC

ModernMech wrote: post #74

ataturk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not the only one. What hurts the most for me is that I wrote my doctoral thesis on privacy back in 2003 and I touched on a number of these issues. 9/11 ruined my career, though. After 9/11, nobody wanted privacy or to even talk about privacy. I knew all this was going to happen. David Brin knew all this was going to happen, and so did a lot of other writers and pundits. And here we sit now, wondering what to d…

> After 9/11, nobody wanted privacy or to even talk about privacy. Yup! And not only did the NSA turn into a monster, but so did the TSA (or more aptly, that monster was created), the biggest theatre troupe on the planet, because that's all it is. The most eye opening thing happened just recently to cement this in my mind. After the Superbowl parade in Philadelphia this year, I caught a ride from PHL to SFO. Basicall…

I'm surprised it took you all the way till the Superbowl.

I recall one of my first times through high security seeing a guy with lunch box getting thru next to metal detector. I quickly called TSA officer and told them there was a man going thru with a box. "Oh that's fine that's one of us". That was the whole reasoning; because some dude you don't even know his last name is "working for the agency" it means he is saint and would never harm the country. It blew my mind that day! That day I realized its all a carnival ponies show and another way to take away more tax payers funds.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#98

Post by reaperducer » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:37 PM UTC

AsyncAwait wrote: post #37

outside2344 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What he is saying, I think, is that because of Citizens United, money controls our politics at this point and it really doesn't really matter what Joe Smith thinks. We can prove that wrong in November, of course. EDIT: Its true that the democrats are just as bought, but I have faith that they would also appoint a supreme court that would rule the other way as well.

> We can prove that wrong in November, of course. The Democrats are no better when it comes to these issues, look at their voting record.

This is true. The secret federal court that makes all of this possible was established during the Carter administration.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#99

Post by ModernMech » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:40 PM UTC

21 wrote: post #91

ModernMech wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After 9/11, nobody wanted privacy or to even talk about privacy. Yup! And not only did the NSA turn into a monster, but so did the TSA (or more aptly, that monster was created), the biggest theatre troupe on the planet, because that's all it is. The most eye opening thing happened just recently to cement this in my mind. After the Superbowl parade in Philadelphia this year, I caught a ride from PHL to SFO. Basicall…

> So let me get this straight. For years, I've been disrobing in public and subjecting myself to groping on the off-chance that someone might have a bomb tucked under their scrotum, yet on the BUSIEST DAY EVER it's okay to throw all those security protocols out the window.... why?? I get your point, but you are making a logical mistake here. If a building shuts down it's fire warning systems and blocks the fire exits…

I don't think it's quite the same as your analogy.

The reason we have to go through scanners and take off our shoes and get groped is because once upon a time, some bad actors got through security with contraband. We then decided we just had to spend millions upon millions of dollars, train thousands of people, and inconvenience and embarrass millions of passengers because if we didn't, more bad actors would get through with said contraband using the same methods.

So we closed a security hole. Except that same security hold is opened up again if enough travelers inundate the airport. Not just one security hole, but almost all of them. The entire purpose of the TSA. Conclusion - if you want to get contraband through security, just wait for the right day and the TSA will let you walk right through.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#100

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #98

AsyncAwait wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can prove that wrong in November, of course. The Democrats are no better when it comes to these issues, look at their voting record.

This is true. The secret federal court that makes all of this possible was established during the Carter administration.

No. FISA and the two federal courts (the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review) created under it in the 1970s do not make this surveillance possible, as it was possible before FISA; instead, they are part of the regime established to restrict it after a number of notorious abuses (the FISA restrictions have been weakened in the post-9/11 era, but are still more than existed prior to FISA.)