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Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

theglobeandmail.com

211–220 of 715 posts

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#211
post #56

Canadian here. I get $65,000 USD from my remote American job. That's low enough that people on this forum snicker at me, and high enough that companies in the "tech town" that I live in physically wince when I tell them my salary expectation. I'd rather work locally, but what can I do?

I really don't understand that. There's so many places across the U.S. where that's very decent money. Anyone who says otherwise is living in some kind of bubble. Exceptions would be if you're living in cities.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#212
post #120
post #56

Canadian here. I get $65,000 USD from my remote American job. That's low enough that people on this forum snicker at me, and high enough that companies in the "tech town" that I live in physically wince when I tell them my salary expectation. I'd rather work locally, but what can I do?

> people on this forum snicker at me I hope you just mean that metaphorically, but if it's actually happening, please let us know so we can scold them. Putting others down that pettily is a breach of civility. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I've seen what the OP describes on HN many times in discussions of engineer salaries. It's usually not really a personal snickering as much as a stern warning that the person is "being taken advantage of" and they should leave immediately.

I see it all the time, but don't have any examples specifically bookmarked.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#213
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who are hesitant to move to USA because of immigration restrictions. Where does this perception come from? Canada has stricter immigration rules than the USA. EDIT: Specifically what I'm talking about is that Canada only allows in immigrants who are economically desirable and speak English or French.

Kinda unrelated to immigration, but I've heard Canadian border patrol is actually more harsh than American border control. Anyone with experience that can verify?

Back when you only needed a drivers license to cross the border, the Canadian border person looked at my Texas driver's license and said, "Texas, huh. Where are your guns?"

That would be considered unacceptable and unprofessional at U.S. border control.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#214
post #166

Canadian tech worker here. Base salary is 120k CAD in Calgary which is far above market rate but I am educated, experienced etc. That is 93k USD. I am looking to move to the USA because of higher salaries, but I am not 22 years old anymore and moving a family (with 2 earners) is no easy task. It falls on deaf ears though, 120k CAD is a good income, I can afford a house, cars, no debts etc so there is very little unde…

Do Canadian companies make that much less money than American ones? Why should they get to pad their profit margins because 120k CAD is "good income"?

It really depends, but if a Canadian company operates in the US market and charges US prices, that puts them at a huge advantage.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#215
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian here (who lives outside of Canada but recently did a stint there for a bit) and this will sound negative but f-it. Canadian culture sucks when it comes to trying new things. Canada has some extra safety net but the culture is puritanical and conservative and nobody wants to go out on a limb and try something new and crazy. Not like Americans. Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. The idea of…

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…

>To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might rock the boat. To these types, those who make a fuss are bothersome and ignorant at best, and probably dangerous and destructive too."

Just being a conservative or a right-winger is bothersome and ignorant and dangerous and destructive and lots of bad things. What a way of seeing the world. :-)

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#216
post #70

Maybe it's not only the money. In Silicon Valley, engineers are treated like stars, not sent to the basement with the worst office. In most cities, the business leaders run the show, and treat engineers as a commodity, to be added or disposed of when needed: "let's go faster by adding more engineers, who cares about the talent level, what's the difference".

This is very true but I think it might be slowly changing as the older generations age out. I think it has to do with the old management styles/structures still hanging on, where IT is still treated as it was 20, 30, more years ago.

Let's face it, today we are hard pressed to find almost any organization where IT/IS is not a critical part of the organization.

I think as organizations change to more modern, organic, less hierarchical structures, the importance of IT is changing. It is going from being a "separate concern" to an "integrated concern". New students are being taught technology at younger and younger ages, which means they can combine it with other fields of study, and thus "business" and "IT" are finally closer to being the same exact thing.

Right now, people are flocking to Silicon Valley with the currently somewhat true but somewhat misguided belief (IMHO) that "that is where all the smart people and opportunities are". It is not the ONLY place the smart people and opportunities are.

There are smart people and opportunities everywhere. Sure, if they cluster in one place, that's entirely possible and makes that place valuable. However, when the cost of living exceeds some natural limit, I suspect that it will be infeasible to continue to grow Silicon Valley further - and when that happens, the desire to save money and shave off expenses will naturally drive businesses, organizations and people to other areas.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#217
post #166

Canadian tech worker here. Base salary is 120k CAD in Calgary which is far above market rate but I am educated, experienced etc. That is 93k USD. I am looking to move to the USA because of higher salaries, but I am not 22 years old anymore and moving a family (with 2 earners) is no easy task. It falls on deaf ears though, 120k CAD is a good income, I can afford a house, cars, no debts etc so there is very little unde…

I do remote work for this reason. Although I did manage to recently find a contractor position that pays competitively here in Canada, I find that very rarely. If you do remote contract work, mostly for US or Swiss companies, you can make 2-3x a top Canadian salary. Just throwing that out there as an alternative to moving to the US.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#218
post #56

Canadian here. I get $65,000 USD from my remote American job. That's low enough that people on this forum snicker at me, and high enough that companies in the "tech town" that I live in physically wince when I tell them my salary expectation. I'd rather work locally, but what can I do?

How much is the rent where you live? I hope it is within expectation of your salary. Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, have low salaries and high rents, which makes working there really hard.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#219
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think something even stronger would be true if you asked about non-CA US states. Why would Canada, at 1/10th the US population, have more of an independent tech locus than does Texas (which has a population comparable to Canada)? Is this just a difference of nations re-distributing wealth internally but not between nations?

Canada is very risk averse. There's money, but it's not flowing properly.

Agreed. And I'd say different countries have different "adoption curves" relating to technology. Think x-axis as being how developed an idea/technology is and the y-axis as how much the country bets on it.

Canada is more "courageous" in some senses, but very conservative in others. I'd describe its adoption curve as flat in the beginning and then bending upwards.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#220

Me and most of my engineering friends faced this decision 5 years ago. We all had to decide between offers from one of the big 5, or remaining in the Toronto-Waterloo region. I'm the only one who stayed. And that's only because I was presented with a really interesting opportunity not available to most. I can only speak to the University of Waterloo, but there was this idea that the only goal worth perusing was a cal…

It's not so much that people are paid better in the bay area, but the jobs are plentiful, more interesting, more opportunities. Endless opportunities in fact. Bay area best case scenario is top of the world. Founder of a world-wide renowned company. Best case scenario for being in waterloo: Founder of a huge telcom handset manufacturer until shifting markets cause massive failure written about in economics textbooks…

> Best case scenario for being in waterloo: Founder of a huge telcom handset manufacturer until shifting markets cause massive failure written about in economics textbooks as "what not to do"

I'm sorry, but this is absolutely not true. Not only did the company you're talking about pay out incredibly well for its founders, but Waterloo is dramatically different today.

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