Fake it till you make it: the wolves of Instagram • Hacker News Board

Re: Fake it till you make it: the wolves of Instagram

#81

Post by lovich » Thu, May 03, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

simonbarker87 wrote: post #25

21 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> young people prostitute them selves to get photo shoots at exotic locations or for luxurary stuff for likes So what's the alternative, working 9-5 in retail for minimum wage and after 10 years you are still nowhere? Unless you are in a highly demanded domain like software, there are few opportunities for young people.

The alternative is genuine entrepreneurship or working your butt off in school in an area that is actually in demand rather than a pointless degree. There seems to be an assumption now that everyone is entitled to a nice cushy lifestyle but if you don’t work in school, don’t develop in demand skills or find a gap in the market to exploit then it’s not going to happen.

Ah shit, that was my mistake, I didn't just pick an in demand niche that no one else had already identified and filled. Good thing I had this safety net to fall on after I spent my savings that took me 30 years to build up to make an attempt on a business.

As it stands in the US currently if you don't receive help from your parents or some other rich connection, the average person is winning the lottery if they start a business and succeed. There is nothing between you and homelessness if you don't have the business succeed, and any sort of health problem will nuke what savings you have immediately

Re: Fake it till you make it: the wolves of Instagram

#82

Post by nailer » Thu, May 03, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

Nexxxeh wrote: post #64

gowld wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fight Club gets a lot of retroactive flak now that people know how they were "supposed" to read it. The book was a dramatization of the way young men feel about life. If the author and book had any valid insight, then of course young men would identify with the "bad" lifestyle in the movie, and not suddenly turn into old men while watching the movie. The movie is entirely showing the fantasy from the "vapid" perspect…

Wasn't the message of Fight Club ostensibly anti-capitalist and anti-consumerist, the exact opposite of the lifestyle of #richkidsofinstagram ?

No. Project Mayhem was anti-capitalist and anti-consumerist. The message of Flight Club was that nihilism is a destructive force.

Re: Fake it till you make it: the wolves of Instagram

#83

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Thu, May 03, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

smacktoward wrote: post #44

neaden wrote: post #4

One thing I've been struck by with movies and films like the Wolf of Wall Street, the film Wall Street, Fight Club, or even the Great Gatsby is how many people end up coming away with the exact opposite message of the movie. They end up idolizing the vapid, shallow lifestyle that the movie is critiquing, because even though the film is critiquing that it can't help but also make it glamorous. Michael Douglas has said…

It's because film is a visual medium, and in these movies the protagonist always looks cool . He may be doing terrible things, but he's wearing hip clothes and driving a gorgeous car while he does them. The visual language is all screaming "this guy's great!", and it ends up overwhelming the message the story is trying to tell. If you want to know what most people will think of a character in a movie, watch the movie…

> It's because film is a visual medium,

It happened with books too: See "Liar’s Poker", by Michael Lewis. He says that he wrote it "so that fewer idealistic college kids would dream of working on Wall Street. ... Somehow that message failed to come across ... They'd read my book as a how-to manual."

http://www.gatsby.ucl.ac.uk/~pel/misc/The-End-of-Wall-Street... https://danwang.co/liars-poker-by-michael-lewis/

Michael Lewis also wrote "Moneyball" and "The Big Short" which were made into films.

Re: Fake it till you make it: the wolves of Instagram

#84

Post by ghostbrainalpha » Thu, May 03, 2018, 5:54 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #59

simonsarris wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always perplexed me. With Mad Men and Breaking Bad too, people idolized the main characters, which is interesting not only because they are bad people but because they are deeply unhappy, too. There's something extremely surface-level about people's takeaways from film characters. They want a certain level of panache that the characters can muster, but they ignore that even the characters themselves are miserabl…

Haven't watched "Mad Men", but I think part of the appeal of Walter White was that his character, being the show's main character, was also the most well-written and nuanced which almost necessarily leads to him being the most sympathetic. The reality that he was unhappy is more than outweighed by the fact that he was living out carpé diem rather than surrendering to terminal illness.

I think your on to it. But can we just say that people and characters aren't just "good" or "bad".

I want to be Don Draper because he is handsome, well dressed, and extremely intelligent. That doesn't mean I want to do everything negative he did. Although I wouldn't mind being able to drink at work.

When kids play Batman, one of them has to be The Joker. It could be that they like clowns or the color purple. It doesn't have to mean that the child is murdering cats in the backyard.

Re: Fake it till you make it: the wolves of Instagram

#85

Post by Lionsion » Thu, May 03, 2018, 5:54 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #59

simonsarris wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always perplexed me. With Mad Men and Breaking Bad too, people idolized the main characters, which is interesting not only because they are bad people but because they are deeply unhappy, too. There's something extremely surface-level about people's takeaways from film characters. They want a certain level of panache that the characters can muster, but they ignore that even the characters themselves are miserabl…

Haven't watched "Mad Men", but I think part of the appeal of Walter White was that his character, being the show's main character, was also the most well-written and nuanced which almost necessarily leads to him being the most sympathetic. The reality that he was unhappy is more than outweighed by the fact that he was living out carpé diem rather than surrendering to terminal illness.

> Haven't watched "Mad Men", but I think part of the appeal of Walter White was that his character, being the show's main character, was also the most well-written and nuanced which almost necessarily leads to him being the most sympathetic. The reality that he was unhappy is more than outweighed by the fact that he was living out carpé diem rather than surrendering to terminal illness.

One other thing is that he had great talent and competence as a chemist, which was often on full display. Many of the other characters in the show had no clear talents, or if they did, they it was more background or reputation than something clearly shown.

I think any character that shows extreme talent will attract fans, regardless how evil or unhappy they are, because people will divorce the talent from the other attributes and admire it on its own.

Re: Fake it till you make it: the wolves of Instagram

#86

Post by watwut » Thu, May 03, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

mundo wrote: post #53

simonsarris wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always perplexed me. With Mad Men and Breaking Bad too, people idolized the main characters, which is interesting not only because they are bad people but because they are deeply unhappy, too. There's something extremely surface-level about people's takeaways from film characters. They want a certain level of panache that the characters can muster, but they ignore that even the characters themselves are miserabl…

There's a fascinating TLP article on this very topic[0]. Here's the most relevant bit: * The reason TV sociopaths are admired is that they are on TV. They have a story. Do you really admire Tony Soprano? Which part? His loveless marriage to a crazy person? A mistress who is even crazier? His gigantic belly and panic attacks? The fact that no one actually likes him? That his daughter was dating a black guy? ("I wouldn…

Animal Kingdom did not made me feel like crime life is good and murder there felt badly. Similar with American Psycho. Westworld made mass murder by the end feel fine, a bit sad at maximum, while Game of Thrones made them feel disgusting. People don't root for sociopaths or even good guys in Game of Thrones as much. So I think a lot of admiration for sociopaths comes from how they are shown on screen, what kind of music is played etc, and not just from what they technically do.

Similarly, I like horror movies a lot. But, it is not nearly the same as video of real person suffering (or realistic portrayal). I don't like those at all. Horrors are made to feel you fake bad and it is similar with most popular movies about sociopaths.

Re: Fake it till you make it: the wolves of Instagram

#87

Post by asdffdsa321 » Thu, May 03, 2018, 6:02 PM UTC

lovich wrote: post #81

simonbarker87 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is genuine entrepreneurship or working your butt off in school in an area that is actually in demand rather than a pointless degree. There seems to be an assumption now that everyone is entitled to a nice cushy lifestyle but if you don’t work in school, don’t develop in demand skills or find a gap in the market to exploit then it’s not going to happen.

Ah shit, that was my mistake, I didn't just pick an in demand niche that no one else had already identified and filled. Good thing I had this safety net to fall on after I spent my savings that took me 30 years to build up to make an attempt on a business. As it stands in the US currently if you don't receive help from your parents or some other rich connection, the average person is winning the lottery if they start…

Yeah, seems like wealth is generally created over generations, rather than lifetimes (common case might be something like: 0 - 1 your grandparents immigrate and work hard to survive, 1-10 your parents work hard to go from subsistence to middle class, 10 - 100 you have enough safety net to take risks/follow passions/start successful bussinesses). Of course there's always exceptions.

Re: Fake it till you make it: the wolves of Instagram

#88

Post by icebraining » Thu, May 03, 2018, 6:03 PM UTC

RIMR wrote: post #79

I am always amazed by how many people get into this "Beat the system and make tons of money" mindset. If there's anything that has proven itself time and time again, it's that people who seek immediate wealth, and who fantasize about their "million dollar idea", are absolutely not the kinds of people who become successful and wealthy. The people who become devoted to a field or a technology - who make the business th…

Carnegie and Buffett occur to me as counter-examples that you need to devote yourself to a specific field or technology.

Re: Fake it till you make it: the wolves of Instagram

#89

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, May 03, 2018, 6:04 PM UTC

sdwa wrote: post #24

thvu1k wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"because even though the film is critiquing that it can't help but also make it glamorous." Honestly, they don't try hard not make it look glamorous. This extravaganza is totally part of what makes people watch it.

Indeed the one thing that sticks out in my mind about The Wolf of Wall Street is that no effort was made to show all the harm he did to the people he stole from. It was just one very, very long spectacle. Not a film I'd watch twice.

Agreed. It's a celebration of a lifestyle that Hollywood perpetually presents as the pinnacle of human experience - drugs, loose morals, sexual promiscuity, and fast cars; the means of acquisition aren't usually considered as important as the acquisition itself.

Re: Fake it till you make it: the wolves of Instagram

#90

Post by okmokmz » Thu, May 03, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #43

TaylorGood wrote: post #6

I know of a guy who “pivoted” from exotic car rental operator in Florida to Forex and Drop Shipping coach via Instagram. His Lamborghini, chartered jets and 30k followers really shine but I also know he still buys fake shoes. Wouldn’t trust him with $1. Gary Vaynerchuk is spot on in that there are too many experts and not enough practicioners. Showing others how to make it is how these guys are trying to make it.

I suspect many of these people touting their nearly purchased Lamborghini and the like are actually just renting them. There was a reddit post where a similar "influencer" described the process of faking the purchase. He would go to a showroom and ask to sit in the vehicle and film it. Most of the time, if the salesperson isn't busy they will let you do this. Sometimes even let you start it if they are nice. This inf…

>I suspect many of these people touting their nearly purchased Lamborghini and the like are actually just renting them.

Yes, this is incredibly common in the entertainment industry (particularly Hip Hop), and I also saw a lot of people like this when I lived near a wealthier part of LA for a couple years