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The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

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Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#131
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country if you are on a dole and the bureau of employment finds a job for you (usually not very nice job) - you have to take it or have a good reason why you can't (health for example). If you don't - you're left on your own. Also, unemployment benefits end after 6 months no matter what.

> Also, unemployment benefits end after 6 months no matter what. What happens after six months if you don't have family willing to support you? You're on the streets?

It's almost never the case. The way welfare works is kind of...buggy.

You accept a job, do it for a couple of days, and that's it.

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#132
post #118
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JSA is being replaced by universal credit. People on UC need to spend 35 hours per week on their job search, and they need to be able to demonstrate this. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-... > You should think of jobseeking as a full-time job. You will be expected to look or prepare for work for 35 hours a week, depending on your circumstances. This requirement is robustly enforced. I ment…

"..some people in the UK who think that unemployed people in the UK can get away with not doing anything." As someone who was unemployed for a while in the late 90's, it was possible. I believe the system is a lot stricter now but a lot of people base their ideas on past experience. I have a friend who has been long-term unemployed due to health reasons. He has to attend courses and such from time to time, which he a…

It's really hard to play the system.

Here's someone who was signed off work for heart problems. He had to have an independent medical (because DWP doesn't believe doctors) before he could claim disability benefits.

During the independent medical he had a heart attack. The healthcare professional had to stop the assessment and call for an ambo. The ambo staff arrived, and took him to hospital.

To you or me this is proof that he wasn't faking his heart problems and he is genuinely ill.

To the DWP it's failure to complete an assessment, and he was sanctioned for this non-completion.

(Read the Debbie Abrahams comments here: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm13... )

There are literally thousands of these.

So, while it's possible to defraud benefits it's not easy, and it's not common. It's certainly much tighter than it used to be in the 90s.

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#133

There are groups of people that, through no fault of their own, are less productive. Maybe they are young and inexperienced just out of school, maybe they are older and have lower stamina, maybe they are rooted in a region where it is costlier and more difficult for businesses to operate, maybe they are a visible minority and are made less efficient by other people’s discriminatory treatment, maybe they have a diffic…

What we're seeing in this map I think is not just your everyday failure of monetarism (trying to control and balance out complex economies with only a single variable which is also an extremely heavy, blunt tool - interest rates). I think the problem is deeper, being a combination of a) misguided treaties based on bad economics (some would call it 'neoliberalism') like the so-called "Stability and Growth Pact" (which actually restricts member state's ability to deal with financial crises) and the way the ECB has been set up to not make fiscal transfers between states (or the equivalent, directly buying bonds from member states), and b) the madness of fixed exchange rates between the member states, by having a common currency without a federal budget.

It mostly comes down to the Euro - what we see with countries with flexible exchange rates is that their economies don't have to internally devalue with changes in inflation, terms of trade, etc. because the exchange rates changes and just balances it out. But in Europe with the common currency, compared to Germany's economy the Euro is weak, meaning their exports are more competitive, and compared to the weaker economies the Euro is strong, which means imports are cheap but exports uncompetitive. This is self-propagating, so Germany has been able to massively increase its trade surplus at the cost of the weaker countries' increasing trade deficits and increasing unemployment, because they are internally devaluing to compensate.

There are two ways to solve this - either do what the US does for its states with a federal taxing and spending Government (meaning fiscal transfers from the stronger economies to the weaker ones to balance this out), or abandoning the Euro and having individual currencies with flexible exchange rates. Business as usual will see Spain, Portugal, Italy and eventually France in the same boat as Greece...

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#134
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the standard definition for unemployment. An unemployed person is generally considered to be someone who would want to be employed, but is not. It is meant to be a measurement of the number of people who want jobs, but are unable to get them. There are other measurements for labour force participation, which are usually fairly easy to find, and are a proportion of people who are legally able to work, against t…

It is as good a time as any to wish a pox on all jargon and reflect that a person with no employment is unlikely to be unemployed. If anyone else is interested, a very light search into the history of when they picked that measure as the standard suggests it has been with us since ~1930. Apparently the nature of complaints hasn't changed much over the years. [1] davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/origins-of-unemployment.p…

I don't think you do the problem justice. Here are some people who fit the "no employment" metric but who we shouldn't count as "unemployed" if our goal is "anyone who wants a job, or needs a job to live without assistance, has one":

* A by-choice stay-at-home parent. There are like 10 million stay-at-home parents in the US (c.f., our entire labor force is ~125 million!)

* A contract worker/consultant, as well as employees in seasonal fields such as construction, many of whom make very decent 12-month wages but might be "unemployed" if you ask at the wrong moment.

* Anyone with a severe disability (mental or physical) which makes work difficult or impossible.

* Someone younger than retirement age (40s-50s) who has retired early by choice (e.g., no kids, dual high incomes for 20+ years, non-extravagant lifestyle; particularly relevant for this forum...)

If you counted all of these, I have no doubt our unemployment rate would at least double, if not triple. But that would be a ridiculously stupid number to even think about -- none of the above people want a job (or want a 12 month job); why should we try to organize society around forcing them to work when they don't need to and don't want to?!

I'm not claiming the current definition of "unemployed" is perfect, BTW. But IMO it's WAY better than yours...

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#135
post #21

Not included in the chart: Israeli unemployment at 3.6% http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-unemployment-in-israel-fa...

Israel isn't an EU, EEA or EFTA member, or candidate for EU membership.

Can people really still point at Turkey and call it a serious candidate for EU membership?

There is a serious case for including Israeli figures in this kind of pan-regional not-exclusively-EU analysis. Israel is far closer, culturally, to Europe than geographically closer neighbors (e.g. Morocco, Tunisia) and is increasingly part of European academic, sporting, and artistic interests (most recently thinking of Eurocrypt 2018, which was in Tel Aviv this week, and this year's Giro D'Italia, which is starting in Israel this weekend).

There are strong historical reasons why Israel will never apply to be a member of the EU or to adopt the Euro - but a perspective is to think of Israel as strongly Eurosceptic. Can anyone really look at Eurosceptic parties on the Continent and say that, what, the EU defines what it means to be European? That Hungary is no longer culturally European or that it dropped off the Continent because Viktor Orbán got elected Prime Minister?

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#136
post #36

Two days ago I was watching a German TV show in which the panelists discussed the low-wage-job boom: apparently unemployment is very low (5.6%) but an unhealthy portion of the jobs people are working are low-wage and/or exploitative of labor, and thus not really contributing to long-term social stability. If too many people are working minimum wage and the minimum wage isn't realistic then sooner or later you have a…

Yup, is it better for society to have someone do a job that pays non living wages or being unemployed ?

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#137

There are groups of people that, through no fault of their own, are less productive. Maybe they are young and inexperienced just out of school, maybe they are older and have lower stamina, maybe they are rooted in a region where it is costlier and more difficult for businesses to operate, maybe they are a visible minority and are made less efficient by other people’s discriminatory treatment, maybe they have a diffic…

>This means that when central banks tighten too much, some workers may be afflicted moderately by a more difficult labor market but whole segments of the less productive and more vulnerable, may be completely cutoff from having a job. Europe has been running rock-bottom interest rates since the 2008 crash. The ECB are charging 0% on MRO lending and offering -0.4% on deposits. The BoE have just increased rates from 0.…

Zero is not rock bottom. A lot of stores of value have negative returns. Zero is high in a lot of contexts.

Historically, negative real returns on stores of value were the norm. Before financial systems existed, almost all investments had negative returns if you didn’t put work and energy into them. To store value, you had to accumulate stuff, buildings or land. Most options either had high maintenance costs, were subject to risk of damage from natural causes and theft, were very volatile or required hard labor to get production out of.

Even in societies with financial systems, getting low risk, hassle free, liquid, positive real returns has been difficult for most of history. This just reflects the natural laws of thermodynamics that tell us that everything tends to decay without a constant supply of work and energy. In general, most things require maintenance to keep their worth.

The 20th century was probably the most notable exception. Because of unprecedented demographic and technological growth, positive risk free real returns were easy to find. The recency effect probably explains some of the confusion people have about this. It is possible that under favorable conditions, wealth can have positive returns and even compound into very good long run returns but it is not a guarantee and there is nothing natural about it. It may not continue forever, particularly amidst an aging and retiring population in a world no longer as rich in easy to exploit natural resources.

While people are used to get negative returns on very short term purchases, you buy fresh vegetables at the supermarket, even if they degrade over time, many can’t seem to accept the normalcy of negative returns on longer term assets. In nature, squirrels’ nut caches have a certain percentage of losses from theft and spoilage. Real returns tending towards the negative is natural even if they can seem unusual for people just out of the 20th century.

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#138
post #8

I wonder how many plausible alternative captions we can come up with for this map? A few takes: * Corruption level (blue is less) * Income per capita (blue is more) * Education level (blue is better) * Price of a beer (blue is more) * etc

Just overlay a map of median temperatures and you'll have some interesting insight.

The map of Protestants and Catholics is the one that leaps out at me as aligning quite closely:

Religion: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_Catholicism,_...

Unemployment: http://thesoundingline.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/EU-and...

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel isn't an EU, EEA or EFTA member, or candidate for EU membership.

Can people really still point at Turkey and call it a serious candidate for EU membership? There is a serious case for including Israeli figures in this kind of pan-regional not-exclusively-EU analysis. Israel is far closer, culturally, to Europe than geographically closer neighbors (e.g. Morocco, Tunisia) and is increasingly part of European academic, sporting, and artistic interests (most recently thinking of Euroc…

As things stand, currently, Turkey's candidacy isn't going to be going forward anytime soon. But that's not the point. It is an official candidate, so Eurostat keeps an eye on it. If Israel became a candidate, Eurostat would do ditto (though for practical reasons Israel also won't be a candidate anytime soon).

Incidentally, Turkey is also in a customs union with the EU, the only non-EU/EEA/EFTA country of any significant size to be in one. This gives Eurostat added incentive to keep an eye on it.

Israel is a member of or involved in various non-EU pan-European things (EBU, Council of Europe etc), but Eurostat is an EU thing, not a European thing.

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