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Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

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Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#271

Post by 52-6F-62 »

naner wrote: post #15
ztjio wrote: post #8

Funny story, in 15 years of professional software development I never experienced the sense of imposter syndrome until very recently when I decided after 12 years at one employer (on many satisfying projects) I needed to consider expanding my employment options. AKA I started looking for a new job. Once I got a whiff of the putrid state of hiring in our industry today holy hell... Sure, I’ve been successful at this f…

Similar situation: I have a history of obtaining lower level positions and then quickly rising up to higher level engineering position within the same company (this has happened with two employers). I don't think this can reliably be used as a general strategy, I just have been lucky with employers. This doesn't give me a huge amount of confidence when considering my chances at getting a new job comparable to the lev…

The worst is when it isn't engineers or any kind of technical leader performing any screening, but strictly an HR rep with no technical knowledge or experience outside of names of things (and the tools they personally employ) or an applicant tracking system that will immediately filter you out if your resume doesn't contain ~XX% of the required skills— or enough/too many years of experience according to the parameters in the posting.

And to so many people operating that way it just seems practical.

I feel lucky with how I got my current job— even though it's a very large company and they definitely do operate in those fashions, my resume somehow made it directly into the hands of the Senior Manager and Lead Engineer for the specific team at the time. They brought me in to talk— no whiteboards, no brain teasers— just some technical questions and personal/professional questions and I was hired inside of two weeks— onboarded a month later.

Applying and [if I even get to] interviewing at most other places previous has left me feeling much the same as yourself...

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#272

Post by ryandrake »

I don’t think I’ve ever had a job I was qualified for, and to me that’s totally ok. My personal view is that if you can land a job in a week of interviewing, and/or you feel very comfortable/qualified to do your job, then you are probably “punching way below your weight class” and need to reach higher. If you’re not faking your way through at least something then you’re not learning or growing.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#273

Post by w0m »

linuxlizard wrote: post #256
nso95 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm about to finish up my CS degree and I couldn't implement most algorithms and data structures without looking them up. I know nothing about compilers. Never taken such a course.

Compilers are a lot of fun; I did compilers in grad school. I regret not taking more EE courses. I would expect we all think about the classes we wanted to take but didn't. :-/

100% agreed. 18 y/o me was an idiot; i'd have done thing significantly differently.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#274

Post by scandox »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #238
scandox wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In such a case, let's imagine a programmer in a department of 100 people. I take that case because to me Impostor syndrome relates to a peer group that one is actively engaged with - not to an abstraction. Anyway, in this case, he believes that 98 people in the office are no good. 1 is amazingly good. He is both better than the 98 but much much worse than the 1. To my mind that is not impostor syndrome. Perhaps I don…

Wikipedia does a better job: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome

Always a good reminder but by that definition it seems insanely broad and also poorly named. I think I'll park my use of it.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#275

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Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#276

Post by Raidion »

kendallpark wrote: post #225
alexquez wrote: post #158

I've been in software for 14 years without a computer science degree and carry a chip on my shoulder because I missed out on algorithms and compilers in school. I'm mostly self-taught and have had the opportunity to run a SAAS company for six years now (CodePen). I'm winging it like many other people in our industry. I wish I'd had two things to when I started my career. 1. A right of passage that endorsed my skills…

> Something equivalent to what doctors have when they receive a medical license and become board certified. In the US this requires four 8+ hour exams, spread out over at least seven years of training; each exam requires months of preparation. I have a hard time imagining most programmers would elect to jump through those sorts of hoops just to feel more confident about their jobs. > In retrospect, I would have paid…

I think a better equivalent would be something like the FE exam that mechanical engineers take out of college. It's given right at the end of college, but could be given at any time for self taught programmers.

Hard part is implementing the test to be (almost) purely problem solving and agnostic of language.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#277

Post by magice »

Frankly, are we overthinking this?

IMHO, 99% of human emotions have reasons of existence. It just makes evolutionary sense (or, if you prefer, it helps us serve the intelligent maker(s) better). Maybe we SHOULD have impostor syndrome, as well as shyness and awkwardness and diffidence and stress and whatnot. Maybe we should EMBRACE them instead of treating them like unwanted baggage of lizards.

One of my memory on this: one night (2 yrs ago?), I woke up with cold sweat, with a terrible dream: I just got paged and I didn't even know where to start debugging. It's horrible time.

You know what happened next? Next few days, I compiled a list of "essential documentations" (plus all the juicy links for debugging). On-call rotation came. I did get page. Different from the dream, I did not forget all of the crappy code (that I had lovingly written). However, the list helped immensely. And whenever my teammates had on-call cold feet, I shared the list. Life rocked. (for a while....)

I was told that we humans freaked ourselves into actions. Deadlines press for action. Pressure elevates the flow and sharpens the focus. Challenges inhibit daydreams and sweeten successes.

So, again, here is my take: why can't we just embrace impostor syndrome? After all, we need some fire on our behind of get our acts together, no?

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#278

Post by swat535 »

alexquez wrote: post #158

I've been in software for 14 years without a computer science degree and carry a chip on my shoulder because I missed out on algorithms and compilers in school. I'm mostly self-taught and have had the opportunity to run a SAAS company for six years now (CodePen). I'm winging it like many other people in our industry. I wish I'd had two things to when I started my career. 1. A right of passage that endorsed my skills…

Thank you for creating CodePen.

Others have mentioned, it already but I feel like I must echo the same sentiment.

I finished a 4 years CS degree years ago and I can honestly say that throughout my career I never had to create a linked list by hand.

Quiet frankly, knowing how to implement a heap with your eyes closed doesn't mean anything.

Running a successful SAAS for many years and scaling it on the other hand, is far more of an impressive accomplishment.

Kudos to you.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#279

Post by taurath »

jcadam wrote: post #220
dirktheman wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get this interview process, and why it's so ubiquitous. I wouldn't care if an interviewee could pass a whiteboard fizzbuzz test if he/she provided some samples of projects they've done. That would tell me much more about your proficiency and methods. I'd be much more interested in finding out if we would have a cultural fit. You can teach certain skills, but if your personality doesn't fit the culture…

Me: "This project you've assigned me is asking me to implement a basic REST API with 2 endpoints. Well... you could take a look at my github profile, I have at least one project that includes a RESTful API considerably more advanced/complex." Them: "We have to be fair to all candidates, so you need to implement the interview project like everyone else." I've never had an employer short-circuit an interview process (a…

What was once a “more objective” way to hire has become a restriction by HR departments - they will not let anyone in unless you pass whatever the bar was, in the exact way that everyone else has taken it. Have seen this at a bunch of mid-enterprise companies.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#280

Post by alexashka »

> Impostor syndrome is associated with overwork, with an overly keen focus on pleasing others, and with an almost desperate drive to constantly achieve more.

We know the wages have stagnated, we know there are fewer and fewer jobs, and stiffer competition.

Sane people as a result, overwork, try to achieve more, and try to please superiors to get head.

It's just survival instincts. When you're on a sinking Titanic, you're pretty stressed to get to be one of the people on one of the boats!

The alternative is to get together with your buddies, face your fate and play some music together, while everyone else is scrambling.

Since playing music (playing computer games in your mom's basement) is frowned upon, most people choose the 'try to make it' route. That route is stressful - especially when you KNOW in your heart, you shouldn't be on that boat. Knowing you shouldn't be on the boat, and yet trying to get on it, feels shitty. Yes, yes it does.

Another way to look at it is, are we really on a sinking Titanic? Or are some fuckers hoarding money at our expense making it so? I don't know that people are intelligent enough to figure that one out, so it goes.

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