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Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

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Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#211

Post by merinowool »

jaggederest wrote: post #39
taurath wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every high performer at my workplace states regularly that they wouldn’t be able to pass the entrance exam at the place they currently work. It’s a cruel fucking environment.

In the last couple weeks I've had to decline 18 total hours of "challenges" and "work samples" from 4 different interview processes. I'm not sure at what point it became de rigueur to require applicants to complete on average 4.5 hours of work without pay, but I really, really don't think it's reasonable. I've even offered to show them my current projects in lieu of work samples, and no go. Baffling.

Once a potential employer baited me into writing a module that would determine a sentiment from given text and few more things. They liked what I did so they invited me to face 2 face interview. During the interview they had given me a task to integrate my code into their product's API and explain to his developers everything as I went along. I completed the task and their product's API has been enhanced. They thanked me and told me they'll give me a feedback in few days. After a week I got an email from them saying I am great, but I wouldn't be good cultural fit. Out of curiosity I checked their API month or so later and they had my code in production (or whatever left from what I did). Have I got scammed?

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#212

Post by Cthulhu_ »

philbarr wrote: post #122

Does anyone else get that feeling like, "am I the only one who sees what a load of shit this is?" I don't think it's imposter syndrome per se, but it's related. It's like, "I'm the only one who can see the truth." An example: years ago my old crooked boss brought everyone in to his huge office to tell us why he couldn't afford to give people the pay rise they'd been asking for. With a straight face and with his Aston…

Not directly related to your personal anecdote, but a confident feeling of "I know better" is the easy part; actually stepping in and doing something about what you think you know better is hard. Because most of the time, while you might think you know better, stepping in and replacing the CEO for example is a career path you don't actually want to do.

So yes, being cynical about stuff, especially bullshit from the higher-ups, is perfectly normal and such, but unless you actually step in and fix things it's wasted cynicism / anger / energy.

(source: I'm cynical all the time but don't envy the person saying the things)

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#213

Post by Cthulhu_ »

knightofmars wrote: post #202
alexquez wrote: post #158

I've been in software for 14 years without a computer science degree and carry a chip on my shoulder because I missed out on algorithms and compilers in school. I'm mostly self-taught and have had the opportunity to run a SAAS company for six years now (CodePen). I'm winging it like many other people in our industry. I wish I'd had two things to when I started my career. 1. A right of passage that endorsed my skills…

> dove deep into the wrong technology (Java Swing :|) For someone, such as yourself, who has been in software for 14 years I'm surprised that you'd write these words. Most people I've met with your years of experience realize there isn't a "wrong technology" there is a "right technology for the problem" and a "right way to use a specific technology". I suspect you're applying hindsight bias in thinking, "I could have…

Second, what were the alternatives at the time? I mean I'm sort of a web developer and work in React and such, but do I feel regrets about having spent a year and a half building an application in Backbone? No, because I know back then, React and Angular and such were non-existent.

Besides, most software, especially front-end, has a very short half-life and it's not unreasonable to believe you'll rewrite the whole thing every 3-5 years anyway. Write front-end code like you'll throw it away, write core back-end like it'll drive your business for the next decade or so. At least the database.

(Of course, as I found out later, Angular had been in development for years before work on Backbone had even started, but it wasn't a google project or well-known at the time).

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#214

Post by sethammons »

On mobile, sorry for typos.

I've experienced imposter syndrome hard. One of my first jobs was a small programming gig, but I switched careers twice before securing a job as a "real" developer. Oh, man, what I didn't know. Everything was new. Source control? Neat! Unit test? Wow! I was so far behind. I worked hard and researched everything I could that I heard someone talk about more than once. If I couldn't find information on it and it came up again, I'd ask a person on the side what it was. I _knew_ I was out classed and I figured I'd never catch up.

Fast forward a year or so and I was working harder problems and harder code bases and still felt inadequate. Everyone was so much smarter and experience than me. They saw solutions before I saw problems. I was still learning so much, but how could I catch up?!

About a year later, our company introduced 360 Reviews. For those not in the know, that means your peers (and it should be a mix of people you've worked with from other teams and your team) anonymously give you a review and talk about percieved strengths and areas in need of growth. I thought, "oh, shit..".

I turned out that people I respected and looked up to had really positive things to say, and they called out where I could improve (and I since I agreed with the improvement areas, I thought maybe I could agree with the strengths too). It was so uplifting to read how folks said they could rely on me, that I had great knowledge that they wanted more access to, and other great stuff. I began to question my imposter syndrome.

A few more rounds of that while continuing to grow in my roles, and my imposter syndrome has faded from a roaring stampede to background noise. I fully credit 360 reviews coupled with striving to do better as a fix for my imposter syndrome.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#215

Post by rb808 »

nambit wrote: post #133

What's the opposite? I feel like I'm smarter than everybody else here (big 5 tech). Including Principal engineers, CEOs and VPs. I'll talk to some random engineer who might impress me once in a while but for the most part, there's a lot of smart people but there's a lot of dumb people. I consider myself near the top. I know this might feel like /r/iamverysmart but I'm self aware enough to know that what I feel is not…

Deliver useful stuff. What big applications have you really delivered that were loved by users and still work well many years later? Until you've done that you haven't proved you're good. When you try you'll find out its more difficult than you think. If you achieve that you could really be better than the people you work with.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#216

Post by rb808 »

k__ wrote: post #152

I have the feeling 90% of people who think they have imposter syndrome are just bad at what they do. Just because you work with people who are even wors doesn't make you good. And just because people who are worse than you act like they not doesn't make you better either.

Sounds like you're pretty arrogant.

But you do have a point that by definition 50% of developers are below average. Nearly all developers are below average in at least some part of their professional skills - but that is just normal.

For example doctors are the same, but a below average doctor is still qualified and useful. Below average developers ie (half of us) are still useful, doesn't make you an impostor.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#217

Post by wolfgke »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #212
philbarr wrote: post #122

Does anyone else get that feeling like, "am I the only one who sees what a load of shit this is?" I don't think it's imposter syndrome per se, but it's related. It's like, "I'm the only one who can see the truth." An example: years ago my old crooked boss brought everyone in to his huge office to tell us why he couldn't afford to give people the pay rise they'd been asking for. With a straight face and with his Aston…

Not directly related to your personal anecdote, but a confident feeling of "I know better" is the easy part; actually stepping in and doing something about what you think you know better is hard. Because most of the time, while you might think you know better, stepping in and replacing the CEO for example is a career path you don't actually want to do. So yes, being cynical about stuff, especially bullshit from the h…

> Not directly related to your personal anecdote, but a confident feeling of "I know better" is the easy part; actually stepping in and doing something about what you think you know better is hard. Because most of the time, while you might think you know better, stepping in and replacing the CEO for example is a career path you don't actually want to do.

The problem rather is: In some points (those where I am really knowledgeable about) I really do know better and if some of these points are on the agenda, I would love to be the CEO to handle these. But for many other points, the CEO surely does a better job than me.

Would the world be a better place if I were the CEO just when such points are decided upon (and otherwise the "old" CEO may decide)? Probably yes.

Would the world be a better place if I were the CEO full-time? Rather not.

You see the problem: You make being "being allowed to decide" (being CEO) an all-or-nothing decision. The solution in my opinion is rather to give authority to make decisions if someone knows a lot about a topic.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#218

Post by wolfgke »

groby_b wrote: post #196
philbarr wrote: post #122

Does anyone else get that feeling like, "am I the only one who sees what a load of shit this is?" I don't think it's imposter syndrome per se, but it's related. It's like, "I'm the only one who can see the truth." An example: years ago my old crooked boss brought everyone in to his huge office to tell us why he couldn't afford to give people the pay rise they'd been asking for. With a straight face and with his Aston…

Since I happened to know a boss who had a shiny new car while not being able to give out huge raises, let me tell you the other side of the story: That company had been broken in to, with extremely valuable equipment stolen. The insurance company promptly paid for it, replacements were bought - all's well in the world, right? Not quite. It turns out, due to tax law quirks, the new equipment's cost as a tax deduction…

> Step two after learning to keep your mouth shut: Learning that the situation is always more complex than you can see from the outside.

Rather step two that the CEO should have done: Explain these quirks of the taxation laws, so that any rational person has to come to the same logical conclusion based on the evidence.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#219

Post by jcadam »

merinowool wrote: post #211
jaggederest wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last couple weeks I've had to decline 18 total hours of "challenges" and "work samples" from 4 different interview processes. I'm not sure at what point it became de rigueur to require applicants to complete on average 4.5 hours of work without pay, but I really, really don't think it's reasonable. I've even offered to show them my current projects in lieu of work samples, and no go. Baffling.

Once a potential employer baited me into writing a module that would determine a sentiment from given text and few more things. They liked what I did so they invited me to face 2 face interview. During the interview they had given me a task to integrate my code into their product's API and explain to his developers everything as I went along. I completed the task and their product's API has been enhanced. They thanke…

Yea, I got tricked into doing something like that once. It is infuriating to see a new feature announced in a software product that's identical to an interview 'homework' assignment you had been given a month prior. "Wow, great solution! However, we've decided to go in a different direction..."

Whether they directly used my solution or gave that problem to several interviewees and picked the implementation they liked best I couldn't know. But I certainly felt used. There's a certain popular piece of software I refuse to use to this day because of my experience interviewing with them (fortunately, they have competition now).

Eventually you get to a point where your gut will tell you whether an 'interview project' is a toy problem or something that might actually be useful.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#220

Post by jcadam »

dirktheman wrote: post #47
jaggederest wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last couple weeks I've had to decline 18 total hours of "challenges" and "work samples" from 4 different interview processes. I'm not sure at what point it became de rigueur to require applicants to complete on average 4.5 hours of work without pay, but I really, really don't think it's reasonable. I've even offered to show them my current projects in lieu of work samples, and no go. Baffling.

I really don't get this interview process, and why it's so ubiquitous. I wouldn't care if an interviewee could pass a whiteboard fizzbuzz test if he/she provided some samples of projects they've done. That would tell me much more about your proficiency and methods. I'd be much more interested in finding out if we would have a cultural fit. You can teach certain skills, but if your personality doesn't fit the culture…

Me: "This project you've assigned me is asking me to implement a basic REST API with 2 endpoints. Well... you could take a look at my github profile, I have at least one project that includes a RESTful API considerably more advanced/complex."

Them: "We have to be fair to all candidates, so you need to implement the interview project like everyone else."

I've never had an employer short-circuit an interview process (as in skip some/all of the BS tech screening) based on having actual, real work samples available for review.

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