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I've spent the last two years building a new email client

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Re: I've spent the last two years building a new email client

#511

Post by s73v3r_ »

misterbwong wrote: post #489
tomc1985 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, user's resources (and their experience related to these factors) aren't part of the calculus that goes into how most companies choose their platforms. To be fair, things have always been this way -- people have been writing good-but-bloated software in shitty frameworks since forever -- but I can't recall a time that one framework so bloated is so heavily in vogue. (edit: Flash, maybe? Though people…

I agree with you that efficient resource usage is pretty low on the priority list for a lot of development these days. I wish it wasn't too but that's a different discussion. Electron being in vogue does definitely compound this issue but the benefits from using it (e.g. cross OS development on a familiar platform & language many devs already know) seem to outweigh the resource problem.

That's because the devs are not the ones to face the resource problem.

Re: I've spent the last two years building a new email client

#512

Post by sciurus »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #508
misterbwong wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not grandparent but I tend to agree that it's NoBigDeal(TM). I'm no electron apologist but I don't understand why using electron is considered "inconsiderate". It seems like the developer(s) used the platform that they felt was best for this app. If the platform's issues overshadow the product's value, then that's a poor choice and the market will react by not using it. Is it inconsiderate for Ford to make a larg…

I don't feel the developer used what they felt was best for this app. I feel they used what was best for them.

Assuming the best platform for an app was even something that you could objectively determine, why would you expect a solo developer to write an app in a platform that isn't the best for them?

Re: I've spent the last two years building a new email client

#513

Post by s73v3r_ »

jchook wrote: post #351
muszc-master wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It's an Electron app, but it is built to use as little RAM as possible, when I run it on my old Macbook Air, it consumes only around 300mb of RAM maximum, which is less than what Finder consumes, and I consider everything over this limit to be a bug. 2. Currently not supporting Mbox/Maildir but downloading emails directly from the server, however an import of this is on the todo list 3. Re: turn off conversation v…

Awesome app man. 150-300MB seems more than acceptable for a local email client. A pedantic, vocal minority may be over-represented in this thread (it IS HN after all). IMO Electron apps present significant advantages that justify its negligible cost, eg skinnable with CSS, inspected live with a web inspector, cross platform etc.

Those are all advantages for the developer. I don't see anything that the user gets for the cost.

Re: I've spent the last two years building a new email client

#514

Post by sciurus »

saagarjha wrote: post #499
mful wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God forbid someone spend thousands of hours building a free app in the tech stack they are familiar/productive with...how inconsiderate!

If their tech stack isn't appropriate for the job, then they shouldn't be using it for. We don't have people writing software for space probes in Python.

But we do have people writing some of the most used email clients in the world using HTML and Javascript, so that's hardly a valid criticism in this case.

https://emailclientmarketshare.com/

Re: I've spent the last two years building a new email client

#515

Post by c-smile »

orwin wrote: post #86
SyneRyder wrote: post #34

This looks pretty cool, I'm really pleased to see people writing new email clients, and you've clearly worked very hard on this! I have a bunch of questions that I couldn't find out from the website (but are obscure enough that I shouldn't expect to): * Is this a purely native app, or an Electron / Javascript app? Personally I'm only interested in native apps & Electron would be a deal breaker - but I'm weird, most p…

You're not wrong on electron: this tech allow devs to be lazy and we all know that when we are allowed to be lazy, most of the time we are. That said, electron can have a small fingerprint if the dev team is carefull/good enough, and is hte best option when your app have to be able to read HTML (and copy HTML formatted string). To me, an email client is a good way to use electron for an app.

"this tech allow devs to be lazy"

Not just Electron but Sciter too in that sense.

"electron can have a small fingerprint if the dev team is carefull/good enough"

Only to some extent. You will have two separate process (at least) in any case and so two sets of the same system libraries loaded in them, IPC between them, etc.

Main task of browser engine is to provide safe browsing experience. Presenting HTML is only second its task and so browser based UI will always be sub-optimal (at best).

Re: I've spent the last two years building a new email client

#516

Post by tomc1985 »

mful wrote: post #464
tomc1985 wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My compute resources are not an all-you-can-eat buffet. I'm sick of inconsiderate developers writing software in wasteful frameworks that waste my electricity and time. You can make pretty x-platform apps in JavaFX, QT Quick, GTK, hell even Lazarus, and they don't eat CPU and memory like Electron does. It is a shame that nearly every app released in the latter half of this decade is just wasteful Electron garbage. Do…

God forbid someone spend thousands of hours building a free app in the tech stack they are familiar/productive with...how inconsiderate!

As if all work, and all effort, performed anywhere, is inherently noble and good?

Do you praise the builder of that Brazilian skyscraper that caught fire and collapse for the thousands of hours that went into its construction?

Re: I've spent the last two years building a new email client

#517

Post by tomc1985 »

cbhl wrote: post #424
tomc1985 wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My compute resources are not an all-you-can-eat buffet. I'm sick of inconsiderate developers writing software in wasteful frameworks that waste my electricity and time. You can make pretty x-platform apps in JavaFX, QT Quick, GTK, hell even Lazarus, and they don't eat CPU and memory like Electron does. It is a shame that nearly every app released in the latter half of this decade is just wasteful Electron garbage. Do…

I really don't think the problem is Electron, or even JavaScript. I think the problem is Chrome, which the Electron runtime requires. Each separate Electron app has its own copy of Chromium in memory. (What happened to shared libs?) I see two ways you can help: (1) you can try to get memory-usage-reducing fixes into Chromium, or, (2) you can build an Electron-compatible runtime that uses less memory (maybe by transpi…

Someone posted a link to a new framework called Proton Native... that's a great step in the right direction

Re: I've spent the last two years building a new email client

#518

Post by augbog »

ryandrake wrote: post #169
cronin101 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He isn't trying to take away from the achievement, just highlighting some legitimate security concerns. IMHO this is justified since people often overlook how critical an attack vector this would be. Imagine if a state-sponsored "hobbyist" posted a pet project like the OP to Reddit and started harvesting keys/password reset capabilities for huge amounts of users. Hell, people flocked to use unroll.me and then it turn…

Yea, I kind of feel the same way about it. "Great work but not my cup of tea for reasons A, B, and C" should be valid feedback on a Show HN.

Well said. It's very impressive and I have a lot of hopes for the future but I feel the concerns are very valid and if OP wishes to take this to the next step, he/she needs to be aware of the security implications and possibly figure out a way to help address them.

Regardless, I'm really glad there are more people trying to fix the problem of email.

Re: I've spent the last two years building a new email client

#519

Post by s73v3r_ »

RussianCow wrote: post #391
ekianjo wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that it's better to have something using the native widgets of your OS if possible. It carries much less footprint and it integrates with your OS much more nicely in the end. Webapps running in Electron is just becoming too commonplace.

That also means building a separate UI for every supported OS, which isn't usually feasible for a single developer.

I've done it.

Re: I've spent the last two years building a new email client

#520

Post by superkuh »

dang wrote: post #361
yani wrote: post #57

You are not weird. More and more people think that Electron is bad

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16975199 and marked it off-topic.

Please stop censoring views that don't align with the hackernews majority. Just because these complaints are so common that HN hipsters now like to hate on them does not invalidate them.
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