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Ask HN: How do you reduce unsolicited phone calls?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you reduce unsolicited phone calls?

#71

Post by MrMember »

ktosobcy wrote: post #53

I read the whole thread and... it seems that people are looking at the solutions at the wrong angle: we have lot's of unwanted marketing/spam calls so we need to find a way to block them. Then they spammers get smart and generate more and more spam - vicious circle. Wouldn't it be better to motion solving the problem at the other end - ban all non-personal calls that are made without your explicit consent? Something…

A lot of these calls come from people or companies trying to scam people (illegal), ignore the existing Do Not Call list (also illegal), and spoof themselves as legitimate, often local numbers (you guessed it, illegal). I doubt banning non-personal calls would deter them much.

Re: Ask HN: How do you reduce unsolicited phone calls?

#72

Post by MrMember »

jchw wrote: post #26
bsharitt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this, but recently "local" spam callers have been getting through a lot more. I don't know if they're spoofing or buying up blocks of numbers but most of them have "valid" caller ids in Hiya.

They're spoofing. You might even find SPAM calls for your own number if you look. I got a text from a confused person with the same first 6 digits (area code + part of the number) asking why I called, and had to explain that I didn't.

Yep, I occasionally get the same sort of texts.

Re: Ask HN: How do you reduce unsolicited phone calls?

#73

Post by bluGill »

dahart wrote: post #58
bluGill wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we get their attention though? Right now they are lieing and saying there is nothing they can do about it, and have convinced congress that they cannot. (in fact it is easy, it just require that they filter the from numbers that companies are allowed to use - it would however cost them money to implement the filter for each company and they prefer profits)

In theory the things that help are a critical mass of public opinion, and/or a critical mass of loss of sales, and/or a competitive advantage. As an individual, getting critical mass is beyond most of our energy levels, but it helps to talk about it, with your friends and family, on HN, etc. You could call your telco and complain about as many spam calls as possible. Their support time is expensive. You could request…

I don't think you can start that spam protection phone company, unless you only allow your customers to receive calls from other customers. As soon as you allow calls to originate from any other phone company you have to trust the other company and they are not doing verification.

You might be able to do a trace origin on all incoming calls, but I don't know how far that gets to figure out who the spammer is.

Re: Ask HN: How do you reduce unsolicited phone calls?

#74

Post by greenyoda »

alex_duf wrote: post #34
dahart wrote: post #29

I'm fairly convinced that the only way this gets fixed is if enough people complain loudly to the phone companies & cancel accounts. Verizon / AT&T / T-mobile / etc. absolutely have the power to fix this, and they're choosing instead to largely ignore it, and productize the solutions for anyone who cares enough - let the spammers pay to create the problem, and let the consumers pay for the remedy. Telcos win on both…

>If it's someone who needs me, they'll leave a voicemail Then the next step is for spammers to leave voicemails

The next step has arrived already. I never used to get voicemails from phone spammers before, but now I'm getting voicemails in Chinese from what's apparently the "Chinese Embassy Scam":

https://www.thebaycitybeacon.com/politics/beware-of-the-chin...

I'm not Chinese, so I'm definitely not being personally targeted by the scam. But apparently, there are enough Chinese speakers in NYC to make randomly calling people and leaving voicemails in Chinese a viable form of crime. (I've also had the same cell number for 17 years, so I know it hasn't been recently owned by a Chinese person.)

Re: Ask HN: How do you reduce unsolicited phone calls?

#75

Post by tarboreus »

The solution to this is simple, but would need to be implemented by your provider.

Just add a screen, like a voicemail, that requires an action be taken to get through to speak to you. Your friend with a new phone number calls, they get a message saying, "Stay on the line one second. If you want to speak to me, hit 445." If they take the action, they proceed to connect the call as normal. Otherwise, you don't even know there was a call.

Google Voice already has something like this. But it's too annoying to switch over everything to that, plus I don't trust Google to keep features around and can't use them for something that essential.

Re: Ask HN: How do you reduce unsolicited phone calls?

#76

Post by dahart »

Symmetry wrote: post #69
dahart wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was suggesting that consumers close their accounts, not that the phone company should close spammer accounts. Also the telcos will not violate any rules by allowing consumers to opt into a service that blocks calls originating from companies reported as spammy by a large number of other consumers. It is absolutely within their power to give consumers some control and choice about receiving spammy phone calls. The r…

> It is absolutely within their power to give consumers some control and choice about receiving spammy phone calls. Are you sure about that? I thought that the carriers being unable to discriminate between incoming phone calls, for whatever reason, was the whole point of common carrier status. I'm pretty sure that there's a business opportunity for a cell carrier that could offer spam filtering as a selling point and…

> Are you sure about that?

Pretty sure, but by no means certain, I'm not a lawyer and I don't know all the laws. Common carrier status does mean that FCC regulations must be followed by companies placing phone calls. Since they are already illegally ignoring the US Do Not Call registry and spoofing phone numbers, there's plenty of room for enforcement of the existing regulations.

Telcos could also advocate for stronger regulation. They don't now and they won't in the future, but that is in their power.

Telcos could provide an opt-in system for sending & receiving calls that are verified to be from legit businesses that adhere to the do not call registry, actually stop calling people when asked, and generally aren't shady. They could provide the consumer with more information, without having to block any calls or violate common carrier rules.

They definitely have the power to try, and they definitely have a financial incentive not to. They are choosing to pretend like their hands are tied.

> I'm pretty sure that there's a business opportunity for a cell carrier that could offer spam filtering as a selling point and if it's a small mobile only carrier there wouldn't be any phone advertising that they'd be giving up by doing that.

Yeah agreed, I hope someone comes along and tries!

Re: Ask HN: How do you reduce unsolicited phone calls?

#77

Post by janitor61 »

Allow individuals to have the equivalent of 900 numbers: paid telephone numbers that require something like $0.50 to connect, and the ability for individuals to refund these microtransactions immediately with ease. As long as you refund all non-solicitors, the problem would be solved and might be lucrative for the carriers if they take a cut of non-refunded payments.

Re: Ask HN: How do you reduce unsolicited phone calls?

#78

Post by LyndsySimon »

dahart wrote: post #29

I'm fairly convinced that the only way this gets fixed is if enough people complain loudly to the phone companies & cancel accounts. Verizon / AT&T / T-mobile / etc. absolutely have the power to fix this, and they're choosing instead to largely ignore it, and productize the solutions for anyone who cares enough - let the spammers pay to create the problem, and let the consumers pay for the remedy. Telcos win on both…

> I think it's hopeless, my only strategy now is just decline any call not in my address book.

I've gotten about a half dozen calls this week where the spoofed caller ID shows that they are in my address book. One of them was ostensibly from my wife. I figure they've gotten ahold of my social graph, associated phone numbers with some of my friends, and are targeting their spoofing to me.

Re: Ask HN: How do you reduce unsolicited phone calls?

#79

Post by tatersolid »

The root cause of the problem is the telcos being completely unwilling to replace ancient insecure protocols like SS7 and associated equipment.

Spoofing caller ID simply should not be possible, considering the very small number of telcos that completely control network authentication, access, billing and routing.

Just send everything not in your contacts to voicemail. The PSTN will be dead in less than a decade anyway. Like email, its time of utility has passed, ruined by spammers and marketers.

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