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Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

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Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#201

Post by logfromblammo »

Jill_the_Pill wrote: post #120
logfromblammo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have a stubbornness gene in me that encourages me to spitefully resist all attempts to meddle in my lifestyle by sanctimonious blowhards that couldn't care less about my actual well being. The last contact I had with such a voluntary insurance program, it consisted entirely of the insured calling in to a call center, to have someone nag them to create health goals and then nag more to make progress. No thanks;…

Oh, I thought that gene was Irish. Best way to get me to do something is to forbid it. I started flossing the day they stopped recommending it.

Could be both. I have some Irish ancestors, too, and in the same subtree as the Scots.

I have a reverse psychology detector, though, so if you forbid something in an attempt to get me to do it, I'm then more likely to be stubbornly obedient in whatever way I have determined would punish you most for attempting to deceive me.

Nagging me about something I was already planning to do is the worst, though, because that means I have to delay doing it until it is apparent I'm not doing it just because you told me to.

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#202

Post by plorg »

jschwartzi wrote: post #100
Havoc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be able to game that somehow in a legitimate way like Johnny says. Most types of oscillating movements should do

With Fitbit you will even get steps for turning the steering wheel while driving, so this is definitely something you can(and should) game.

I routinely rack up thousands of steps playing my cello, even with my Fitbit on my left wrist. I suspect the numbers would be significantly higher if I wore it on the wrist of my bow arm.

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#203

Post by gascan »

mplewis wrote: post #68
gascan wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turn it around- perhaps the low risk individuals find subsidizing the high risk individuals equally repellent. Wellness programs allow those individuals to recover some of their premiums.

Low-risk individuals subsidizing high-risk individuals? We just call that "insurance."

It tends to start out that way, yes. But eventually as you can better model risk, you can better customize premiums to each individual, until you eventually approach charging each individual their expected risk (loss * probability) plus overhead.

Which, I believe, is how insurance is ideally supposed to behave according to economists.

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#204

Post by stale2002 »

mannykannot wrote: post #194
stale2002 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads are a negative sum game, IMO. The less money that ad companies make the better. Or in other words, the ad companies deserve it.

There is not much to complain about, from the consumers' view, in an explicitly opt-in system like this. The whole thing seems quaintly naive from today's perspective.

I don't think consumers should complain.

What, what I believe consumers should do is install ad-blockers en mass.

Actually, no. What they should do is install ad blockers that specifically send in fake ad clicks and fake ad views and data to the advertisement companies so that they lose money.

There isn't much point to complaining when there are so many more disruptive and effective things that a bunch of consumers could do.

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#205

Post by jschwartzi »

plorg wrote: post #202
jschwartzi wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Fitbit you will even get steps for turning the steering wheel while driving, so this is definitely something you can(and should) game.

I routinely rack up thousands of steps playing my cello, even with my Fitbit on my left wrist. I suspect the numbers would be significantly higher if I wore it on the wrist of my bow arm.

The first week I had mine I was getting tons of steps while I was sitting in the office working. A little googling revealed that Fitbit uses the settings for handedness versus where you're wearing your fitbit to tune the sensitivity of their algorithm. Long story short, I set mine up to say that I'm right-handed and that I wear mine on my right hand, even though I'm left-handed.

Their resting heart rate algorithm is pretty bad, too. My RHR goes from 56 when I'm sedentary for a day to 61 during the week when I'm working out regularly. Looking at the actual chart there's a nice line at 55-56 where my RHR actually is, but I guess Fitbit just uses a moving average.

I'm excited at the prospect of insurance companies using these algorithms to determine that I'm unhealthy.

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#206

Post by lev99 »

8_hours_ago wrote: post #163
lev99 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 incidents per year at 20miles/day is higher than the statistical average. Are you biking in a way to increase the likelihood of an incident, biking in an area that is less safe than the average bike ride, or did you just have an unlucky year?

That is 3 incidents over 5 years. I don’t think that is too much of a statistical anomaly. One of the injuries was from a pedestrian stepping into the bike lane without looking, one was from a car merging into me, and one was from a collision with another cyclist while racing.

I will agree that 3 incidents over 5 years is closer to the normal.

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#207

Post by greglindahl »

wpietri wrote: post #199
hayleox wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the computer you're on is completely locked down, there really isn't.

And that's the horrific part to me. Instead of making sane software or sane policies, it ends up making perfect sense, at least at an individual's level, to manufacture a piece of specialist hardware that does nothing but jiggle a mouse.

One of the use-cases of the jiggler is during police raids, where they're used to keep a computer from locking itself. Obviously that's not the use-case you're imagining!

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#208

Post by dllthomas »

mirimir wrote: post #177
verelo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that i have not done many questionable things like this when i was a kid, but at what point is it an admission of fraud that can get one in trouble?

In this case, the add-click businesses engaged in fraud. So was it fraud to trick them?

... yes? "My target is also guilty" is not a defense against fraud...

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#209

Post by otakucode »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #71
otakucode wrote: post #46

What you measure - you optimize. They measured cellphone shaking. They got optimized cellphone shaking. I will also share another famous quotation of mine which I intend to eventually get tattooed somewhere (when I can figure out how to make it look good.. I have no tattoos): "Make game of that which makes as much as thee." - from The Rubiyat by Omar Khayaam.

Omar Khayyam Great quote. But you probably know, that the English translation is more inspired by Omar, and much of what you enjoyed was the work of FitzGerald. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/516526... Full Quote: “But leave the Wise to wrangle, and with me The Quarrel of the Universe let be: And, in some corner of the Hubbub couch'd, Make Game of that which makes as much of Thee.”

I originally found the quote in a computer science book, and it interested me enough to seek out The Rubiyat to read. The version I found (online I believe) was actually a translation of several different versions of the work I believe? I'm not sure who the translator was. The quote in particular was only present in one of the 'versions' of the work. I imagine translating poetry, of all things, would be tremendously difficult, but as I don't know many other languages I had to take what I could get. Regardless of source, I think the quote is very insightful and stupendously relevant in todays world that seeks to reduce all people to an easily manipulable optimized factor in a rigid system. Viewing those systems as a game to optimize in turn seems the only rational course.

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#210

Post by mirimir »

dllthomas wrote: post #208
mirimir wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, the add-click businesses engaged in fraud. So was it fraud to trick them?

... yes? "My target is also guilty" is not a defense against fraud...

I get that. At least, if you're both contributing to fraud against advertisers.

But what about if tricking ad fraudsters avoided defrauding advertisers?

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