YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#71

Post by borkt » Tue, May 01, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

sithadmin wrote: post #12

badlucklottery wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>or barely graduated and ended up worse off than our other classmates in terms of job/grad school prospects. And also devalues the degree their peers actually worked for, even if only a little. I've been in a lot of interviews where I'm wondering, "How the hell did this person graduate from ${school}?" and the obvious answer is "a non-zero amount of cheating". I don't think you should beat yourself up over it but I a…

Personally, I don't really see meaningful value in degrees anyway, so I don't really buy that line of argumentation. My only reason for pursuing graduate studies was to pass the barrier to entry for an academic position, but I gave up on that and went into consulting.

I agree. I got fairly close to finishing but was disillusioned by a few teachers and students who clearly weren't there for the right reason. I had a graduate professor that specifically forbid us to work in groups on problem sets. When I would only make it half way after days of work, my professor would ask what is wrong with me and why im not completing work. When I mention I saw the rest of the class working together he said if you can't solve it thats what I should have done. So break the rules he set to do better? It just made no sense.

That and people splitting assignments up and then bringing together each persons contribution and copying it. It was done far more often than not, and in the open right down the hall from a teachers office hours. I decided it really wasn't an environment I wanted to be in and just moved on.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#72

Post by openasocket » Tue, May 01, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

sithadmin wrote: post #56

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument seems similar to somebody saying that it is okay to litter because the environment is screwed anyway. You may be correct in your criticism of the educational system, but how does that justify you making the situation worse?

I worked with less than 100 clients over the course of two years. My impact was statistically insignificant.

Statistics don't enter into it. Whether something is morally wrong or right is intrinsic to the act itself, not based on what other people are doing. If everyone in the world starts stealing from stores, that doesn't mean it is OK for you to start stealing as well.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#73

Post by openasocket » Tue, May 01, 2018, 7:03 PM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #58

openasocket wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is stealing from stores that don't have good security also useful to society, by bringing future competition to the industry? And if so, does that make stealing moral?

My second sentence was not a justification to the first one, just one of the intended consequences on society of what he did. How did his action compares to stealing ?

I thought your second sentence was meant to be a justification of the first. So what is your justification for why what he did is morally right?

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#74

Post by majormajor » Tue, May 01, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

eanzenberg wrote: post #62

majormajor wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want to be able to identify the best of the best? That's the fundamental question here - if that's a useful thing for society, to have credentials that distinguish beyond "did well in high school," then you don't want grade inflation. And if you don't - you could make a solid case that the extreme ends of those skills may not be that useful in general outside of academia - than do Harvard et al need nearly as…

Peer group matters. Being bottom 10% at Harvard is quite different than being bottom 10% at Boston University (no offense).

The people who seem to not believe this are the people pushing for grade inflation, no? Grade inflation is all about making everyone who isn't top 10% have a prettier resume.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#75

Post by ttoinou » Tue, May 01, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

openasocket wrote: post #73

ttoinou wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My second sentence was not a justification to the first one, just one of the intended consequences on society of what he did. How did his action compares to stealing ?

I thought your second sentence was meant to be a justification of the first. So what is your justification for why what he did is morally right?

The students lied to their professor, he just sold them the text so I don't see any wrong doing on his part.

Can you justify why it would be bad to ghostwrite ?

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#76

Post by ribosometronome » Tue, May 01, 2018, 7:07 PM UTC

sithadmin wrote: post #54

lr4444lr wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a lesser purveyor of counterfeit goods, but you're still a counterfeiter.

Counterfeit implies a copy of something that has a defined market value. Academic papers don't. What I did is closer to a tailor creating a suit for someone from scratch, rather than someone operating a sweatshop to produce fake suits from some known brand.

Counterfeit goods are not labeled counterfeit for their labor condition origins.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#77

Post by ChuckMcM » Tue, May 01, 2018, 7:08 PM UTC

I get the outrage over cheating, and it really bothered me in classes that graded on a curve that the cheaters would really adversely impact the people who didn't.

But there is a meta question here, why does a youtube "star" even succumb to the idea of advertising/promoting a cheating product, when doing so might put all of their Youtube revenue at risk? Maybe it is because they get crap Youtube revenue and 'several hundred dollars' is enough to push past their moral compass.

People put a lot of heart and sweat into their Youtube channels. Perhaps it is that Google is increasingly sucking more and more of the money that used to go to the channel in order to prop up their service which can't get advertising revenues to support it.

I wonder when the Screen Actors Guild is going to figure out they have another battlefront to engage on.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#78

Post by sithadmin » Tue, May 01, 2018, 7:11 PM UTC

s17n wrote: post #68

jrhurst wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling that people who make misterbowlfingers argument would say that your analogy is also valid.

The point is that since similar statements could be constructed about anything ("murder isn't wrong, it's the job of police to prevent me from killing people"), it's a dumb argument, regardless of how you feel about cheating or stealing.

No, your approach to reasoning is bad. You're trying to apply a construct from formal logic and apply it to situations that defy description in formal logic. You can't reduce aesthetic and emotional responses into syllogism.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#79

Post by forgotmysn » Tue, May 01, 2018, 7:11 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #77

I get the outrage over cheating, and it really bothered me in classes that graded on a curve that the cheaters would really adversely impact the people who didn't. But there is a meta question here, why does a youtube "star" even succumb to the idea of advertising/promoting a cheating product, when doing so might put all of their Youtube revenue at risk? Maybe it is because they get crap Youtube revenue and 'several…

When Hollywood stops seeing the Internet as the enemy.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#80

Post by sithadmin » Tue, May 01, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #67

sithadmin wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterfeit implies a copy of something that has a defined market value. Academic papers don't. What I did is closer to a tailor creating a suit for someone from scratch, rather than someone operating a sweatshop to produce fake suits from some known brand.

> Academic papers don't Did you get paid for them? If yes, they had a market value. That's the most basic definition of a market--a buyer and seller negotiating and agreeing upon a price for a good or a service. "Market" doesn't mean commodity. Hopefully you weren't writing anyone's economics papers...

I'm sorry, but that's a dumb response.

There's value in producing a work that passes muster as an acceptable paper to turn in for an assignment. But there isn't a pre-existing reference good that has a defined market value to counterfeit.