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Against Facebook

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Re: Against Facebook

#11

Post by Lionsion »

sebringj wrote: post #5

This article makes it sound like people are forced to be social addicts. Maybe some of us our outliers here so it may be odd for me to say this but I honestly have spent more time coding social networks than actually using them. So no, I don't get how people are forced to use them.

> This article makes it sound like people are forced to be social addicts.

I think "forced to be social addicts" is a misreading of the article. I think a more accurate rephrase is that "people are manipulated to be social addicts."

This essay is basically:

1. Statement of the problem, including exposure of some misleading narratives.

2. Advice to avoid being manipulated by technology and media, including but not limited to social media.

3. A heuristic for separating the media wheat from the media chaff (exploit survivorship)

Re: Against Facebook

#12

Post by dfxm12 »

Why "Against Facebook"? I know some mention of other services in the essay, but the headline, topic sentences and conclusion all call out Facebook pretty much exclusively.

Starting off attacking solely Facebook in the headline and wrapping it up nice and tidy at the end with "You should delete your Facebook account :)" creates a false sense of security for readers that once they delete their Facebook accounts, they're safe from the effects the essay warns about, but that's not true, as long as they're still on the web.

...and please understand, I'm not coming from the position of defending Facebook, but trying to get journalists and essayists to point out more clearly that these issues are pretty much baked into the web at this point and cutting off Facebook, even entirely, is going to have little effect in insulating yourself from things like unpaid microwork, having your data sold, being targeted with ads, etc., even if you are reading good books in your free time.

Re: Against Facebook

#13

Post by SolarNet »

Not going to happen. There is a need here, people want some sort of social media. The best we can do is offer a better alternative. A federated protocol (e.g. like email) would solve a lot of problems.

The problem is that unlike email, not enough open source dev time goes into federated open source social media. Projects like diaspora, mastodon, and the like (there are even go and rust implementations of these protocols for those interested) as well as do it yourself servers like sandstorm.

If we want to get rid of facebook, make it an easy 5 step process to install Ubuntu, install sandstorm, download the diaspora server app, download the diaspora phone app, get your friends and family on it. I find it hypocritical that so much anti facebook sentiment is here, yet so little open source dev time goes into projects that could kill facebook.

Re: Against Facebook

#15

Post by ProAm »

SolarNet wrote: post #13

Not going to happen. There is a need here, people want some sort of social media. The best we can do is offer a better alternative. A federated protocol (e.g. like email) would solve a lot of problems. The problem is that unlike email, not enough open source dev time goes into federated open source social media. Projects like diaspora, mastodon, and the like (there are even go and rust implementations of these protoc…

5 steps is too many

Re: Against Facebook

#16

Post by checkyoursudo »

sebringj wrote: post #5

This article makes it sound like people are forced to be social addicts. Maybe some of us our outliers here so it may be odd for me to say this but I honestly have spent more time coding social networks than actually using them. So no, I don't get how people are forced to use them.

Most addicts of any type are not forced to become so, but that shouldn't make us less sympathetic to their situations, should it? Not many people are forced to use drugs or tobacco or alcohol or coffee etc, but they still get addicted.

I don't use fb or the other attention-mongering social media sites, so I feel you in not understanding how they are so addictive. But I am pretty sure they are in fact addictive to a lot of people.

Re: Against Facebook

#17

Post by amelius »

dfxm12 wrote: post #12

Why "Against Facebook "? I know some mention of other services in the essay, but the headline, topic sentences and conclusion all call out Facebook pretty much exclusively. Starting off attacking solely Facebook in the headline and wrapping it up nice and tidy at the end with "You should delete your Facebook account :)" creates a false sense of security for readers that once they delete their Facebook accounts, they'…

> the headline, topic sentences and conclusion all call out Facebook pretty much exclusively.

Perhaps because it's the easiest target and otherwise the general public might feel overwhelmed, and think that the fight for privacy is futile.

Re: Against Facebook

#18

Post by sebringj »

Lionsion wrote: post #11
sebringj wrote: post #5

This article makes it sound like people are forced to be social addicts. Maybe some of us our outliers here so it may be odd for me to say this but I honestly have spent more time coding social networks than actually using them. So no, I don't get how people are forced to use them.

> This article makes it sound like people are forced to be social addicts. I think "forced to be social addicts" is a misreading of the article. I think a more accurate rephrase is that "people are manipulated to be social addicts." This essay is basically: 1. Statement of the problem, including exposure of some misleading narratives. 2. Advice to avoid being manipulated by technology and media, including but not lim…

Do you believe that we are manipulated to be addicts? There are real addicts with genetic reasons for being so and then there are the rest of us that can control our behavior. Our behavior can be manipulated but we are not going to be addicts from that. More of a waking up and tuning out rather than a withdrawal I would think but this isn't me arguing, just commenting as its an interesting topic and I value your input on it.

Re: Against Facebook

#19

Post by Lionsion »

LinuxBender wrote: post #9

In my experience, people that have been absorbed into the collective must decide for themselves to leave it. Some may not have the will power or desire to do so and some may be oblivious to the effects it has on them. In my opinion, this is nearly identical to seeing friends hooked on powerful drugs. I can't tell them it's hurting them. They have to experience enough negative effects to reach out for help themselves.…

> They have to experience enough negative effects to reach out for help themselves.

I think, when it comes to social media, the harmful effects are much more subtle and harder to identify and articulate than those for addictive drugs. There's a benefit in pointing out and elucidating them, as well and the mechanisms by which they operate. For instance, until someone told me, I didn't realize the Facebook app works just like a slot machine, except it dispenses small amounts of social affirmation and novelty rather than small amounts of money. I just hadn't made the connection.

Re: Against Facebook

#20

Post by tempodox »

I think the article's diagnosis part hits home. But it's preaching to the choir. Most ordinary users won't see it that way. They seem to fall, hook, line, and sinker, for the respective platform's advertised purpose (pun fully intended). This is visible even in their complaints about a platform's perceived shortcomings.
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