Software sucks • Hacker News Board

Re: Software sucks

#61

Post by stevekemp » Tue, May 01, 2018, 6:39 AM UTC

milesvp wrote: post #48

fgonzag wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've learned is that the user's complaint is always valid, the user's proposals seldom are. That is to say, users know when they don't like something, but they are often wrong about why they dislike it or what is interrupting their workflow. Our job is to find and fix the root cause starting from user feedback, and fix the product in accordance to what the user is actually trying to accomplish. This is ofte…

What's interesting about this, is that user complaints can be suspect too. I read an anecdote recently about the American auto industry. They'd ask people about what they didn't like about the cars they bought. And they'd get all these complaints, then try to build cars based on those complaints. The problem was, many of the complaints were for things that took them out of the market for the car they bought. For inst…

I'm suddenly reminded of the car that Homer built:

http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/The_Homer

I suspect there is a lesson there about using aggregate feedback, rather than listening to single individuals.

Re: Software sucks

#62

Post by dmitriid » Tue, May 01, 2018, 7:26 AM UTC

lallysingh wrote: post #26

ramenmeal wrote: post #5

Unrelated but similar and I feel like venting... On Google Maps you'll search for something, and the results are shown as a list that almost covers the entire map. It's Google MAPS and it hides the map for so many things. I'd rather go to a place that's 3 miles straight down a free way than 2 miles of stop lights, but I don't know that if the map is covered!

Or why's it so hard to get it to show a street name? It will show some, and it won't show others. If the one you want is in the latter category you've got a lot of zooming before you see it. Ugh.

Because the are so many things you can show on a map.

For fascinating essays on digital maps, this site: https://www.justinobeirne.com

Re: Software sucks

#63

Post by mattmanser » Tue, May 01, 2018, 7:28 AM UTC

vortico wrote: post #43

The reason for pretty much any bug found in software driven by a huge company is that there is a large disconnect between fixing bugs and profit. Fixing a bug almost never excites users, and even if it did in this case, they won't see a measurable increase of users of their software, so you can't prove a profit increase. Even if a bug is fixed, the effort might be wasted when a large overhaul of the system happens be…

This isn't a bug. Recommendations are just hard.

He's trivializing it, but specifically mentions that including one 5.7 miles away would be fine. And then promptly says because he visited it before.

That's some complicated intelligence and pattern matching that he's asking for. What exactly should it be ranking by? Proximity and popularity and traffic density and Google rating and awhole load of other things.

The rules that Google apply obviously work for some scenarios, but not this one. Could it be better, obviously, but that's not a bug.

Re: Software sucks

#64

Post by bfred_it » Tue, May 01, 2018, 7:49 AM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #63

vortico wrote: post #43

The reason for pretty much any bug found in software driven by a huge company is that there is a large disconnect between fixing bugs and profit. Fixing a bug almost never excites users, and even if it did in this case, they won't see a measurable increase of users of their software, so you can't prove a profit increase. Even if a bug is fixed, the effort might be wasted when a large overhaul of the system happens be…

This isn't a bug. Recommendations are just hard. He's trivializing it, but specifically mentions that including one 5.7 miles away would be fine. And then promptly says because he visited it before. That's some complicated intelligence and pattern matching that he's asking for. What exactly should it be ranking by? Proximity and popularity and traffic density and Google rating and awhole load of other things. The rul…

I feel that Google Maps search quality has gone down in the past few years. Sometimes searching "Coffee shops" will not show anything within a mile and I have to reposition, press "Search this area" and then it will show the Starbucks a block away.

Probably still better than Apple, which pointed me to a 19-hours-away store when asking for "directions to Albertsons" a couple years ago: https://i.imgur.com/jSCrToj.jpg

Re: Software sucks

#65

Post by Double_a_92 » Tue, May 01, 2018, 8:15 AM UTC

wintorez wrote: post #16

Software does not suck; requirements, especially from non-technical stake-holders suck. Every single piece of software starts with a single and easy to understand idea, then different stakeholders arrive and start adding inputs and often conflicting requirements, and then software starts to suck. None of these would have happened if we knew how to say "No". :(

I see you've read that terrible book by uncle Bob and now you're a professional coder. :)

Re: Software sucks

#66

Post by tuukkah » Tue, May 01, 2018, 8:16 AM UTC

Consider using a better geocoder? https://pelias.io

Re: Software sucks

#67

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Tue, May 01, 2018, 8:22 AM UTC

vortico wrote: post #43

The reason for pretty much any bug found in software driven by a huge company is that there is a large disconnect between fixing bugs and profit. Fixing a bug almost never excites users, and even if it did in this case, they won't see a measurable increase of users of their software, so you can't prove a profit increase. Even if a bug is fixed, the effort might be wasted when a large overhaul of the system happens be…

The counter-argument is that we’re (mostly) talking about profitable companies making billions a year, which will be wasting tens or hundreds of millions anyway on unneccessary spending, poor strategic decisions, and other standard corporate cash sinks.

Why not gain reputation and good will by making users happy and deliberately cultivating a reputation for low-frustration, responsive, thoughtful and reliable products?

Of course this is the opposite of “Get shit out fast, fix it later” and would surely be very boring to work on.

But even so.

Re: Software sucks

#68

Post by WillReplyfFood » Tue, May 01, 2018, 8:42 AM UTC

fgonzag wrote: post #19

Gary404 wrote: post #4

I'm working on b2b software and when working with the designers at http://fairpixels.pro I've learned many things from their approach as to why (a lot of) software sucks. Personal example: I've been measuring qualitative feedback users have been giving us and passing it to them to make design updates. They (design team) would come back with me with questions about data & metrics. They were more interested in what the…

One thing I've learned is that the user's complaint is always valid, the user's proposals seldom are. That is to say, users know when they don't like something, but they are often wrong about why they dislike it or what is interrupting their workflow. Our job is to find and fix the root cause starting from user feedback, and fix the product in accordance to what the user is actually trying to accomplish. This is ofte…

Classic case- ui-paradigm shift in the middle of the programm- for once the right click does not present options - but does something else entirely that undoes work.

Its strange- but usually this is found on components that had a developer-UI attached to it and where stand alone. Its easy to craft a pre-mature UI-decision into the working of a component- and run out of time for a redesign.

Another classic there- you have a UI and suddenly it gets terminal- as in you have to enter commandline shortkeys to archive efficient workspeed with it.

Re: Software sucks

#69

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Tue, May 01, 2018, 8:45 AM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #63

vortico wrote: post #43

The reason for pretty much any bug found in software driven by a huge company is that there is a large disconnect between fixing bugs and profit. Fixing a bug almost never excites users, and even if it did in this case, they won't see a measurable increase of users of their software, so you can't prove a profit increase. Even if a bug is fixed, the effort might be wasted when a large overhaul of the system happens be…

This isn't a bug. Recommendations are just hard. He's trivializing it, but specifically mentions that including one 5.7 miles away would be fine. And then promptly says because he visited it before. That's some complicated intelligence and pattern matching that he's asking for. What exactly should it be ranking by? Proximity and popularity and traffic density and Google rating and awhole load of other things. The rul…

Seems like a case of adding "ORDER BY number_of_previous_visits, distance" to a SQL query...

Re: Software sucks

#70

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Tue, May 01, 2018, 8:51 AM UTC

wintorez wrote: post #16

Software does not suck; requirements, especially from non-technical stake-holders suck. Every single piece of software starts with a single and easy to understand idea, then different stakeholders arrive and start adding inputs and often conflicting requirements, and then software starts to suck. None of these would have happened if we knew how to say "No". :(

> Every single piece of software starts with a single and easy to understand idea

I take it you're not a developer?