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Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

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Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#131
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goodhart's law: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."

That's only true to the extent that the chosen measure was only coincidentally something that looked like a good measure to start with; if you were actually measuring the true feature of merit, making it a target wouldn't make it a bad measure. Making a measure a target incentivizes discovery of its deficiencies, if any, as a measure.

What's an example of a metric that measures the true merit of something?

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#132
post #124
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low-risk individuals subsidizing high-risk individuals? We just call that "insurance."

That’s not a trait inherent to insurance. Premiums can be adjusted based on risk so that everyone “subsidizes” everyone else by the same amount on average.

In this case the people who most need insurance cannot afford it.

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#133
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who use bikes don't trust drivers either. In fact I work on the base assumption that bus drivers in particular, are actively trying to kill me.

I am invisible in my mind when I'm riding. In fact, the one thing that catches me off guard is people yielding when they shouldn't be yielding - drives me crazy, and throws off my game.

Can't stand that. If they'd just gone when they should have, I wouldn't have had to fully stop and unclip. Working on my trackstands, but can only do them for a few seconds still...

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you more likely to sustain an injury than someone who is mostly idle?

Do you have statistics to indicate biking is inherently more dangerous than other activities or are you just repeating a certain assumption you have?

I asked a question. Notice the '?' mark at the end

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#135

I did something similar in college. A company paid cash for installing software that displayed ads on the bottom of your monitor. It qualified your ad viewing activity based on mouse movement. At night I would open the software, wrap my mouse cord around an oscillating desk fan, then go to bed. Earned myself $50/month

To my combined horror and joy, you can now just buy a commercial mouse jiggler: https://www.amazon.com/WiebeTech-Programmable-Mouse-Jiggler-...

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#136
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is a positive-sum world where it's actually better for us all the fewer people that get screwed. So although it may be better if they used alternative methods, it's actually a step backwards to turn this into a zero-sum game

Ads are a negative sum game, IMO. The less money that ad companies make the better. Or in other words, the ad companies deserve it.

I'm not sure about the latter part, but I think the first part is pretty clearly true.

The theoretical economic value of advertising is new product discovery. If you needed a thing but didn't know there was a solution and you saw an ad, then some of the value you gain would be attributable to the ad.

Imagine a world entirely without ads. Would you really be lacking a lot? I doubt it. Especially with the internet, it's easy enough search, to receive word of mouth, to read reviews, or to ask friends for help with a problem. But let's assume it happens some. Ads might at least get you to a solution sooner, so count the value gain there as well.

Now subtract all the money spent on things where ads encouraged a purchase that was not valuable or even wasteful (e.g., didn't live up to expectations, was fine but the need wasn't urgent so it sits in a closet, was bad enough that it actively cost you extra money). Subtract further the amount of money spent on ads, hundreds of billions of dollars per year. Subtract also all the time spent watching, listening to, and reading ads. Further subtract the amount of value that would have been gained had that time been used as a person wanted. And further subtract all the value that could have been gained had those creative people creating ads been doing something beneficial.

I can't come up with any reasonable numbers that suggest advertising is a net societal positive. It exists not because its targets want it, but because businesses are in an arms race to manipulate consumers in ways favorable to the advertisers. It's like military spending: most of it happens not because anybody really wants it, but because nobody wants to lose to the other guy.

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#137
post #9
post #6

I wonder how many people use stuff like this to cheat the system? I remember seeing someone on reddit bragging about attaching their Fitbit to a reciprocating saw to get more steps than his wife. I couldn't figure out why it was that important, but with insurance discounts, I can definitely see the financial incentives.

A lot. I'd be surprised if any Business Management 101 class didn't teach that if there is a reward involved, people will maximize for whatever critera you measure.

This is probably true for all jobs and compensation schemes, but for some reason super true in Sales. Take a sales guy who failed middle school math, give him as complicated a salary/bonus structure as you can and overnight he will turn into Albert Einstein and optimize his behavior to produce the most money.

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#138
I was using the Samsung Health app not for insurance just for personal reasons. I was doing well most days I waked a minimum of 10,000 steps or so I thought. So I opened up the app to find it was not working because it had updated and I had to agree to new terms first. :(

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#139
post #105

Wellness programs and similar initiatives are so repellent to me that I'm pretty sympathetic to everyone fooling them.

A fitbit wellness program similar to this is attributed to one of the ignition points of the West Virginia teachers strike. The gamification program was added in conjunction with a health insurance cost increase and in the context of already very low pay. https://www.thenation.com/article/the-west-virginia-teachers... Our healthcare costs are insanely high, with the fundamental performance of the system the worst in…

Plus, these kind of schemes are never implemented as discounts for participating in gamification. It’s always a price increase for non-participants.

Re: Smartphone cradle used to cheat “10k steps/day” health insurance discounts

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have statistics to indicate biking is inherently more dangerous than other activities or are you just repeating a certain assumption you have?

Between walking, driving, and biking, biking is the _most_ dangerous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort#Travel Given the same commute you can expect riding a bike to be 23 times more dangerous than driving a car. Put another way, it looks like people get into car accidents roughly once every 18 years. If instead of driving your car for your commute you rode your bike, you can expect to get into an accident ever…

Only the first estimate given there is reasonably sourced. And it's almost 40 years old. Bike safety has improved dramatically since then, so I doubt it's as bad as you suggest. [1] suggests that the number of trips made by bike increased from 1.7 billion in 2001 to 4 billion in 2009, but [2] suggests that the number of cyclist deaths was roughly constant over that range. So per-capita, cycling safety has likely improved dramatically. I couldn't find any data on the number of cyclists or number of trips by bike going back to 1979 in the 5 minutes I spent on it, but I suspect the trend is similar going back that far.

For comparison, the car number quoted on Wikipedia appears to be from 2009.

Also, you have a lot of control over your own safety on a bike. I think there are many cyclists who are an order of magnitude safer than your average cyclist.

To be clear, I don't doubt that cycling is risker than driving. I just don't find the typically quoted numbers to be accurate.

[1] http://bikeleague.org/commutingdata

[2] http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1258.html

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