Startup School Beijing • Hacker News Board

Re: Startup School Beijing

#161

Post by mistermann » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

dnomad wrote: post #134

ng12 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to see a defense of Chinese policy that doesn't fall back upon whataboutism. America's shortcomings have nothing to do with my ability to criticism China's human rights abuses and appalling lack of individual liberty.

There are plenty of people in China who are happy to discuss the pros and cons of their government, especially as compared to America. You could even read Chinese newspapers and forums (some are in English or you could even learn Mandarin!) where this stuff is hashed out all the time. But it would require courage and integrity and a real willingness to learn. It's much easier to parrot what you hear second-hand from…

Is it possible to criticize China without it being classified as "ignorance and fear"? Seriously, what "ignorance" are you referring to? Is it perhaps your mind interpreting specific criticisms as claims of pure evil?

Re: Startup School Beijing

#162

Post by auganov » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #156

auganov wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dang, they're not "my assesments". They're cold, hard, well-known facts relevant to the discussion. Almost all the comments are political. The standard HN policy on threads that go too political is to just nix the whole thing. You know it and I know it.

Even if that were true, the greater part of "assessment" is in selecting which "cold, hard, well-known facts" to mention, which not to mention, and what weighting to place on them. The facts don't tell you that. Humans make those choices, and there are infinitely many to choose from. Your description of how we moderate HN isn't really accurate. When a story is nothing but partisan politics, we may kill the thread—tho…

Mention what? What facts may one omit that justify this ongoing atrocity? Perhaps you're just ignorant about it. In which case it only goes to show that it's an interesting, relevant fact people should be aware of.

Yes, I imagine my comment might excite strong feelings more so than others - because such an atrocity does. For good reasons.

The discussion has clearly settled on the moral aspects of YC doing business in China. Which seems okay with you - as long as you don't call out the actual atrocities.

Re: Startup School Beijing

#163

Post by exabrial » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

Interesting... I'll be in Bejing these dates, I may stop in!

Re: Startup School Beijing

#164

Post by pnw_hazor » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:54 PM UTC

How will this impact my social credit score?

Every day China is becoming even more of a nightmare dystopia, so of course YC will dive in headfirst.

Re: Startup School Beijing

#165

Post by baby » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 6:00 PM UTC

jk2323 wrote: post #152

baby wrote: post #45

This is awesome. I’ve been wondering how hard it is to partner up, give trainings or consult in China. Without many english speakers there it seems that the Chinese language is a pre requisite but it might be getting better. If anyone has experience to share I’d be interested. I’m guessing this kind of ventures might be easy sales to universities like Tsing Hua.

What do you have? What do you want?

Oh, I've been giving applied crypto trainings at Black Hat and different venues. I was wondering if I could train or give classes in China, or collaborate or do security consulting for companies there.

Re: Startup School Beijing

#166

Post by mistermann » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 6:03 PM UTC

_qbxp wrote: post #140

dnomad wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of people in China who are happy to discuss the pros and cons of their government, especially as compared to America. You could even read Chinese newspapers and forums (some are in English or you could even learn Mandarin!) where this stuff is hashed out all the time. But it would require courage and integrity and a real willingness to learn. It's much easier to parrot what you hear second-hand from…

I'm genuinely interested in hearing pros and cons on the Chinese government from Chinese who are currently living in mainland China. Particularly on the topics that are the biggest flash points on HN - government censorship/great firewall/surveillance/social credit scores, etc. Do you have any English-language resources for this? Or decently translated sources? No snark or sarcasm - I've searched before, but either f…

Here are some informative YouTube channels that I've watched for quite some time:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwNPa8fSXzzAZuT9859GVhg

https://www.youtube.com/user/ChinaNonStop

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgFP46yVT-GG4o1TgXn-04Q

Typically someone will very quickly chime in and say these are "propaganda" and you should completely ignore them. If you ask these people if the facts stated in the video are true or false, they will not answer the question. Watch with a skeptical mind, compare to facts you read in other sources, and judge for yourself. A big difference between these YouTubers (well, China Uncensored is biased to be fair) and what you'll read in the mainstream media is, these people live there, they are reporting the truth far more accurately than you'll get from other sources (on the topics they cover - they don't really get into macroeconomics for example.)

Re: Startup School Beijing

#167

Post by throw2016 » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

nieksand wrote: post #38

throw2016 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is jingoism masquerading as concern for autocracy. If people really cared about things like surveillance or dystopias in any serious way they would be on the streets about the extensively documented activities of the NSA, rubber stamp courts, secret orders, searching through personal effects at borders and campaigning for Snowden and other whistle blowers to be brought back with honors. But on the ground these l…

It seems very fashionable to pull out moral equivalency every time China's autocracy and misbehavior is mentioned. Simple experiment: 1. Walk down Pennsylvania Avenue with a sign that says "Trump is a pussy grabber who should be impeached". 2. Go to Tiananmen Square and hold up a poster-sized picture from the 1989 massacre. See how equivalent the governments are then. (As an aside... if I was employed by the Chinese…

Ironic you claim to stand up for dissent in China but so quickly insinuate 'propaganda' when it comes dissent here. Doesn't seem democratic.

Speaking of misbehavior Iraq, Libya and Syria have been destroyed, hundreds of thousands killed and the countries set back decades if not centuries on completely made up premises. This is not just misbehavior, these are crimes against humanity that are happening right now. Yet some seem more concerned about Tienanmen square.

Re: Startup School Beijing

#168

Post by baby » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 6:40 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #56

philippz wrote: post #54

I don't find Beijing to be the best place to start something like that. I'd rather prefer Shanghai which provides a much better ecosystem and access to capital than Beijing.

Shenzhen is the tech place to be in China. But if you want to make the government happy, you got to be near them in Beijing, so a lot of tech happens there also.

As a foreigner, Shenzhen is kind of a boring industrial city. That's probably why they chose Beijing which is equally as exciting as Shanghai in my opinion. As for pollution, they might both be pretty bad choices.

Re: Startup School Beijing

#169

Post by whatyoucantsay » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 6:41 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #148

auganov wrote: post #74

To people debating whether China are the good guys or not - hundreds of thousands Falun Dafa practicioners are locked up in Chinese concentration camps. Thousands have died of torture. Many more are suffering it everyday. China is ruled by a cruel evil regime. No question about it. You won't hear people involved with China talk about it. You won't be allowed into China if you do.

Please don't take HN threads into national/political flamewar. Regardless of how correct your atrocity assessments are, this is off topic and violates the site guidelines. Others have been violating the guidelines in this thread too, but at least the other subthreads haven't gone completely out to the generic political sea. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It's not off topic at all. YC is now literally working with the authoritarian dictatorship committing the above atrocities as well as committing more executions than any country on the planet. More than the rest of the top 10 combined. This is news.

As is the fact that you're suppressing comments on these atrocities, which are far more extreme and less frequently discussed here than very tired US political wedge issues you disable flags on. This behaviour is a gross abuse of power.

You and your fellow VCs will make a fortune in the next few years. But blood will be on your hands, and it will harder to live with than you imagine. You already realize it on some level, albeit a deeply buried one.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/92884/which-country-executes-the-mo...

Re: Startup School Beijing

#170

Post by seanmcdirmid » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 6:46 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #168

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shenzhen is the tech place to be in China. But if you want to make the government happy, you got to be near them in Beijing, so a lot of tech happens there also.

As a foreigner, Shenzhen is kind of a boring industrial city. That's probably why they chose Beijing which is equally as exciting as Shanghai in my opinion. As for pollution, they might both be pretty bad choices.

If they were going to do it that way, better to pick a nice western city like Chengdu or Kunming. The latter even has clean air sometimes (though definitely not as good as it used to be).